NFM07 Fare Increase :evil:

[bb21]

Now call me a sceptic but I think it is totally unfair when this seems to go by without much publicity or acknowledgement. Maybe the TOC's are hoping that people would not notice the increase, by stealth i would say, especially when attention is gradually turned to the merry-go-around of the January uppity-up game.

I was checking fares for late-October/early-November just then and to my horrors discovered two increases for the only two journeys I checked. East Midlands Trains seems to have raised their lowest tier of AP fare by a massive margin. Leicester - London for example, currently the lowest one-way fare is £8 (w/o R/C). Post-NFM06 it appears that the lowest tier will be raised to £11, or a 37.5% increase. Wonder why they spent all that effort promoting the AP fares recently, maybe to divert people's attention away from what they're really up to?

Then it seems that London Midland are playing up with their OPR (Super Off-Peak) fares too. Nuneaton - London is currently £17 and that will go up to £17.50. OK small increase it is, but still it's on top of the annual affair that happens in January anyway.

How many times are TOC's allowed to raise fares in a year? Is it everytime NFM is updated, so three times a year? Previously I have heard of Great Western doing it in May but was not aware of others revising fares during the year. Are the annual maxed out increases not enough for the TOC's?

Anyone got more examples?

 

[radamfi]

Do some TOCs raise fares in May or September but not in January?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Trainline Best Fare Finder shows £9 fares from Leicester to London in orange until the end of October. In November the £12 fares are in orange. (£1 off those fares on EMT site)

 

[barrykas]

Looking at the Fares Finder in NFM06 and 07 gives the following Advance ranges for Leicester - London:

NFM06 - £9 to £48 in Standard, £16 to £95 in First Class
NFM07 - £12 to £48 in Standard, £16 to £95 in First Class

Similar applies on other EMT flows.

Looking back to NFM99 (May 2008) you had £7 to £39 in Standard, £14 to £62 in First Class.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[janb]

This thread has prompted me to have a look at NFM07, it looks like Virgin have changed Lancaster-London to a 2C restriction (same as Preston, Manchester) from 3A.

However this is not the case in STAR/Journey Planner/Online, so could be an error in NFM07.

 

[Zoe]

I have heard of Great Western doing it in May but was not aware of others revising fares during the year. Are the annual maxed out increases not enough for the TOC's?

Last year FGW hiked Off Peak fares by about 20% in September. At the same time they introduced a new Super Off Peak fare at the cost of the old Off Peak fare but more heavily restricted.

Are the annual maxed out increases not enough for the TOC's?

At the end of the day they are a business and will do everything possible to maximize profits.

 

[Dewedin]

Proof if any was required that all fares should be regulated.

 

[Paul Kelly]

But isn't it true that regulation does nothing to stop that (renaming an off-peak to super off-peak and adding more restrictions), as long as the price increase is kept within the allowed limits? In other words, there's no regulation of the restrictions, only the price, as I understand it.

 

[Dewedin]

But isn't it true that regulation does nothing to stop that (renaming an off-peak to super off-peak and adding more restrictions), as long as the price increase is kept within the allowed limits? In other words, there's no regulation of the restrictions, only the price, as I understand it.

Well I don't believe any fares are truly regulated at the moment

 

[radamfi]

The SRA fare document from 2002 states:

"Fares regulation also protects certain conditions attached to these
fares. For example, in the case of savers, these are required to be
valid for no less than a month, and to be valid all day Saturday and
Sunday and from no later than 10:30 on any other day. They need not be
valid for any journey beginning between 15:00 and 19:00 on Mondays to
Fridays from London area stations or (when travelling away from
London) stations between London and Reading, Watford, Luton or
Stevenage, inclusive."

First Great Western were found to be in breach of these regulations when they implemented afternoon restrictions on Savers between Exeter and Newbury/Didcot and the restriction was removed shortly afterwards.

 

[Zoe]

renaming an off-peak to super off-peak and adding more restrictions

That's not what they did, the off peak fare still exists but with a 20% price hike. A new super off peak fare was then introduced at the old off peak price.

 

[Deerfold]

That's not what they did, the off peak fare still exists but with a 20% price hike. A new super off peak fare was then introduced at the old off peak price.

That's a bit of a technicality - the outcome's the same whichever they actually did.

 

[Zoe]

Back in 2006 FGW scrapped the Super Saver claiming that it would make things simpler by not having it. The fact that they have now re-introduced it but at the Saver rate does make me question the real motive for scrapping it in the first place.

 

[radamfi]

Super Off Peaks on East Coast, fGW and East Midlands Trains satisfy the regulations in the SRA document quoted above. Those are the regulated tickets on those routes. They are NOT allowed to impose afternoon restrictions on those tickets except to/from those places mentioned. That is why it is often a good idea to rebook at places like Didcot and Bedford when leaving London in the afternoon peak. It appears that north of Milton Keynes now has afternoon restrictions, however. Virgin must have had to have that cleared with the DfT.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Back in 2006 FGW scrapped the Super Saver claiming that it would make things simpler by not having it. The fact that they have now re-introduced it but at the Saver rate does make me question the real motive for scrapping it in the first place.

Super Savers weren't valid on Friday, though, unlike Super Off Peaks. Otherwise it would break the rules. It does seem strange that there is no longer a discount for avoiding Fridays. I suppose the reduced availability of Advance fares on Fridays has replaced that.

 

[Zoe]

I thought XC have now introduced evening peak restrictions from Birmingham.

 

[OwlMan]

I thought XC have now introduced evening peak restrictions from Birmingham.

On CDR (off peak day returns) not on the regulated fares.

Peter

 

[tbtc]

Now call me a sceptic but I think it is totally unfair when this seems to go by without much publicity or acknowledgement. Maybe the TOC's are hoping that people would not notice the increase, by stealth

Do you expect Tesco to advertise every time a tin of beans goes up in price?

 

[Paul Kelly]

The SRA fare document from 2002 states:

"Fares regulation also protects certain conditions attached to these
fares. For example, in the case of savers, these are required to be
valid for no less than a month, and to be valid all day Saturday and
Sunday and from no later than 10:30 on any other day. They need not be
valid for any journey beginning between 15:00 and 19:00 on Mondays to
Fridays from London area stations or (when travelling away from
London) stations between London and Reading, Watford, Luton or
Stevenage, inclusive."

Thanks - I didn't know that; really interesting. I wonder how the DfT keeps track of which fares used to be savers when it is checking these things. Some of them are now off-peak returns, some super off-peak returns, quite a few also anytime returns (e.g. those priced by Northern).

That's not what they did, the off peak fare still exists but with a 20% price hike. A new super off peak fare was then introduced at the old off peak price.

What I meant was, from the point of view of fares regulation, it is the same fare but renamed. If I understand correctly, the regulated restrictions radamfi posted now technically don't apply to the "new" off-peak fare, but to the new super off-peak. So the new off-peak is effectively unregulated, but obviously they are constrained in what they can do with it as it would be daft if it had more restrictions than the super off-peak. Although ISTR reading in another thread there are some trains out of London on the ECML in the evening peak that super off-peak returns are valid when off-peak aren't - perhaps this is a case of the same thing.

Anyway to take a practical example of the FGW fares, a friend of mine had to go from Reading to Exeter for the weekend at short notice. Her compromise choice of train was the 1703 to Plymouth, which was the last one the off-peak return (£66) was valid on (until they became valid again at 1900, but if she waited until then she would have been too late into Exeter). And the super off-peak return (£53.70) wasn't valid between 1530 and 1900 so it was totally out as an option. But as FGW aren't allowed to impose afternoon peak restrictions west of Reading, it looks like I should have advised her just to buy a CDS to Newbury (£4.90) and then the super off-peak return from Newbury to Exeter is only £48.80 and most importantly valid on all trains in the evening peak. Add an extra CDS for coming back on Monday and the total is only £58.60, i.e. £7.40 cheaper *and* valid on all trains in the evening peak!

Can anybody confirm that reasoning? Seems you learn something new every day on here...

 

[John @ home]

it looks like I should have advised her just to buy a CDS to Newbury (£4.90) and then the super off-peak return from Newbury to Exeter is only £48.80 and most importantly valid on all trains in the evening peak. Add an extra CDS for coming back on Monday and the total is only £58.60, i.e. £7.40 cheaper *and* valid on all trains in the evening peak!

Can anybody confirm that reasoning?

I can confirm that your analysis of the time restrictions is correct, but to combine a super off-peak return (SSR) Newbury - Exeter with CDS fares to/from Newbury the trains in both directions must stop at Newbury. The 1703 from Reading does, but returning on a Monday the first Exeter - Reading service on which SSR tickets are valid to Newbury and which calls at Newbury arrives in Reading at 1415. The second arrives at 2006.

 

[bb21]

Do you expect Tesco to advertise every time a tin of beans goes up in price?

Hmm, no, but you completely missed my point.

My point was not the fact that they raised fares more than once during the year, but making further adjustments when the January increase was already on the basis of at least annual inflation rate + x%.

TOC's can do whatever they like ultimately but we're also entitled to moan about above inflation rises as we wish, especially when the hike is as much as 37.5% and the company, which it seems, tries to implement it without letting its customers know

 

[wibble]

How many times are TOC's allowed to raise fares in a year? Is it everytime NFM is updated, so three times a year? Previously I have heard of Great Western doing it in May but was not aware of others revising fares during the year. Are the annual maxed out increases not enough for the TOC's?

There are fares rounds in January (the main one), May and September. The NFM is updated to reflect fare changes not the other way round. The multiple fares rounds are not a result of privatisation as they existed under British Rail.
The multiple rounds allow any updates, errors or anomolies to be corrected after the main fares change in January.

You might be critical of the fare rises this January, but consider yourselves lucky - in the 1970s, BR had to tackle rising costs and one way to do this was to increase fares. The 1970s saw mostly double-digit fare increases between 1974 and 1978, with 1975 seeing 3 fares increases in one year. This resulted in a cumulative increase of over 50% in fares for the year.

The issues now are not that different and TOCs will find any means possible to rein in costs and increase revenue. Rail staff are lucky that they have seen wage increases whilst other industries have seen pay freezes or reductions.

A lot of people forget that fares regulation was only introduced at privatisation. Prior to this, regulation was poor at best. If BR had continued in it's former state, how much do you think you'd be paying for rail fares now?

 

[yorksrob]

A lot of people forget that fares regulation was only introduced at privatisation. Prior to this, regulation was poor at best. If BR had continued in it's former state, how much do you think you'd be paying for rail fares now?

It would come down to how much revenue could be generated in the farebox and how much the Government of the day was prepared to put in. Much like today infact.

 

[Greenback]

Although no one likes paying more for anything, it has puzzled me why such a fuss is made of rail fare rises. I mean, BBC Wales were up in arms a couple of years ago about what they reported as 'fare rises of up to 8%' or soemthing. Anyway, they went to a Valleys Lines station, possibly Aberdare, and asked a passenger what they thought of the massive fare hikes. The reply was, 'well, for me it works out at about 30p extra per day, so I;m not complaining!'. Well done to the BBC for showing the report, evne though it udnermined their strident headlines! Or perhaps that's why BBC Wales ran it, to undermine BBC London? Who knows!

By the way, I've just noticed Anchor butter has gone up by 32p in a fortnight in the local supermarket. Most probably lots of other things have gone up a lot too. Yet I don't see the butter manufacturer or the chain having to defend these price rises in the media.

Is it another case of bash the railways?

 

[WESSEX158]

I've never seen a point in complaining about fare rises but then I'm not a commuter so it doesn't affect me that much.

 

[radamfi]

If a tin of beans goes up in price, then the social and environmental cost is negligible.

If rail fares go up and people decide to desert the railways and travel by car instead, then that defeats the main object of having trains. Trains exist to reduce congestion and environmental damage. They are not just for people without cars.

Therefore it makes more sense to vary train fares with reference to the cost of motoring. I don't just mean petrol, I mean total cost including purchase, maintenance and insurance.

 

[bb21]

One can choose to not buy a tin of beans or butter if prices go up too much. One can't exactly not travel by rail, especially for people who don't have the option of using their car for long journeys.

That's why bus / rail / air fares will always attract more attention and criticism than those other things mentioned if the increase is a lot more than inflation

 

[b1gd4z]

I would very much like to scrutinize this if anyone can point me in the right direction - I think it would be to my avantix...te he

 

[Zoe]

One can choose to not buy a tin of beans or butter if prices go up too much. One can't exactly not travel by rail, especially for people who don't have the option of using their car for long journeys.

There's always National Express coach.

 

[Greenback]

Or a plane. Or not travelling at all.