NFM 06 and Avantix

[bse35]

What are they and how do you get them?

 

[First class]

Anyone who isn't staff with access an Avantix machine is liable to being arrested by the British Transport Police I would imagine! Been quite a few thefts of these from cabs since their introduction.

NFM06 is a pretty complete list of rail point to point fares for the latest period. You obtain a copy of this for about £12 from TSO.

 

[ainsworth74]

What are they and how do you get them?

Avantix is the machine used by Guards and others to issue tickets, and as such is not avalible to the public.

Avantix Mobile

NFM 06 is a piece of software that you can buy that contains information on all tickets avalible during the current timetable period.

NFM 06

 

[transportphoto]

No, No, No.

NFM 06 is the Current National Fares Manual.

Avantix has Many different forms:

Avantix Traveler is a simple piece of software which enables you to find out the price of point to point tickets and their restrictions.

Avantix Mobile is the device used on most trains to issue tickets and findout train times etc...

 

[yorkie]

Avantix Traveller is the software, the latest version is loaded with data from NFM06.

In effect, you have Avantix Traveller NFM05, Avantix Traveller NFM06, etc.

I personally think it is morally wrong that anyone is expected to pay for access to the fares manual; the data should be freely available. Sadly it is not. Avantix Traveller software has been leaked in the past, however we don't allow links to the software on filesharing sites from this forum. If someone stumbles across any leaked version, we ask not to be involved and that they don't publish the URL on this forum. (Before anyone asks, yes ATOC and TSO do read this forum!)

 

[tannedfrog]

Where can I buy the Avantix CD? I mean legally, not a leaked version?

 

[ainsworth74]

You can get it from here.

 

[tannedfrog]

Thanks

ah ok £14 including delivery

not available on amazon

 

[MCR247]

Thanks

ah ok £14 including delivery

not available on amazon

You want a legal version and you are looking on amazon?

 

[causton]

Don't the NFM 06 fares expire today, with NFM 07 being valid from tomorrow?

 

[ainsworth74]

Yeah NFM 07 starts from tomorrow.

 

[philjo]

I ordered NFM 07 (which replaces NFM 06 as from tomorrow) from my local bookshop - it arrived in 2 days & no postal charges to pay so cheaper than ordering it online from TSO.

Quote the ISBN shown below & any UK bookseller should be able to order it for you.

Avantix traveller fares information CD-ROM: 5 September 2010 - 1 January
2011 (or until further notice) NFM 07

Corporate Author: Association of Train Operating Companies
Publisher: TSO (The Stationery Office)

ISBN 9780117068667

Price £10.59 inc. VAT

 

[Nick W]

Before anyone asks, yes ATOC and TSO do read this forum!)

Is it worth putting something in the T&C demanding ATOC ask for permission before viewing a topic, with a £20 penalty charge for non-compliance or prosecution under the computer misuse act?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Is it worth putting something in the T&C demanding ATOC ask for permission before viewing a topic, with a £20 penalty charge for non-compliance or prosecution under the computer misuse act?

And what section of the CMA prevents them from reading a publicly accessible forum?

 

[yorkie]

NFM06 is available at a site that can be found by searching Google for fares manual (ATOC and ATOS Origin are banned from visiting that site!) but NFM07 isn't there (yet?).

And what section of the CMA prevents them from reading a publicly accessible forum?

If you state that such access is unauthorised, that could in theory do it. But in reality it would be unenforceable. In a similar way to a TOC saying that a person is banned from entering a publicly available platform, it would be unenforceable. Doesn't mean it can't theoretically be done But it's pointless anyway because even if someone 'bans' ATOC from visiting a site, there's nothing to stop someone else (such as a solicitor) visiting on their behalf!

 

[wintonian]

NFM07 dosn't even appear to be avalible from TSO at the moment which is rather strange.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ah found it by putting the ISBN into Yahoo which find it on TSO but it dosn't appear to be listed under rail fares. :?

 

[John @ home]

NFM07 ... doesn't appear to be listed under rail fares.

Did you check whether it was listed under Fiction?

 

[Drsatan]

I'm thinking about purchasing the Avantix Traveler CD, but what are the advantages/disadvantages of using it compared to going on www.nationalrail.co.uk and using fares information from that?

 

[MCR247]

I'm not sure you get what its for:

- It shows the list of the possible fares, ie the cheapest advances etc for the route. National rail only lists the one available.

 

[transportphoto]

I'm thinking about purchasing the Avantix Traveler CD, but what are the advantages/disadvantages of using it compared to going on www.nationalrail.co.uk and using fares information from that?

It also details the restriction in full, it is left for you to interpret into what trains you can/can't get with that ticket instead of a machine doing it for you.

However in the case of AP tickets it lists the full possible AP tickets - not what ones are available for any specific train.
It also does not have access to the timetables.

 

[John @ home]

I'm thinking about purchasing the Avantix Traveler CD, but what are the advantages/disadvantages of using it compared to going on www.nationalrail.co.uk and using fares information from that?

An example may help. If you enter LEEDS to MANCHESTER you can get

route EARLYBIRD NOTHS1
PSS £ 1496.00 TH TPE
7DS £ 37.40 TH TPE

route HEBDEN BRIDGE
PSS £ 2060.00 NT
7DS £ 51.50 NT
FNW £ 21.00 NX NT
SOR £ 17.40 NT
SDR £ 16.60 NT
SDS £ 14.00 NT
CDR £ 14.00 B1 NT
CDS £ 13.90 B1 NT

and so on for all the different routes

You can then double-click on many of these items to find out what the restrictions or codes mean. For example,

FNW - NORTHERN DUO NT
00106 - HEBDEN BRIDGE
1 Package @£ 21.00 = £ 21.00
Standard Class Return
To : 0438 MANCHESTER STNS
Restriction : NX

Northern Duo is available for 2 adults travelling together at 'off peak' times on a number of routes. Available for travel on Northern, Arriva Trains Wales, Cross Country Trains, East Coast, First TransPennine Express, First Hull Trains, Merseyrail and Virgin Trains services.

Break of journey is only permitted for connectional purposes on the outward journey and at anytime on the return journey.

Child and Railcard discounts NOT permitted.

Normal refund arrangements apply.

Outward Travel:
Mondays to Fridays, any train timed to depart from 0930
Saturdays/Sundays and Bank Holidays Valid any train, except in December.

Return Travel:
Mondays to Fridays, any train the same day EXCEPT for trains timed to depart between 1601-1759 inclusive.
Saturdays/Sundays and Bank Holidays Valid any train, except in December.

Excess Arrangements
Customers returning between 1601-1759 Mondays to Fridays must be charged the difference between the fare paid and the normal Off Peak (Day) Return/Anytime (Day) Return fare for 2 Adults.

 

[Deerfold]

Route EARLYBIRD NOTHS1

!

Is there any sensible reason for a Leeds to Manchester fare being routed NOT HS1?

Failing that, any reason at all?

 

[MikeWh]

!

Is there any sensible reason for a Leeds to Manchester fare being routed NOT HS1?

Failing that, any reason at all?

More Southeastern cock-ups! They really don't know what they are doing with fares for HS1.

 

[John @ home]

!Is there any sensible reason for a Leeds to Manchester fare being routed NOT HS1?

Failing that, any reason at all?

Global copy-and-paste without checking the result, I think.

 

[yorkie]

The fares manual site gives this US law as justification for hosting Avantix Traveller, and the site has been going for some time now, I don't think ATOC can get rid of it. I think there is a strong case for allowing it...

http://www.bitlaw.com/source/17usc/107.html

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A [17 USC § §106 and 106A], the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include--

(1)

the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

No problem there; it's clearly non-profit as it's a free download.

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

Fares data. Hmmm... unlikely to pose a problem I'd have thought. It's data that, arguably, should morally belong to the general public and we should have a right to know. It's hardly comparable to a music album or movie!

(3)


the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

Well, it is all the fares. But you can get the fares by means that ATOC are happy with anyway.

(4)
the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

Market value is basically zero anyway. They sell it for £9+P&P+VAT, that's peanuts. Sales must be very low; who would buy it? A handful of enthusiasts. So I don't think this poses a problem.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The fares manual site gives this US law as justification for hosting Avantix Traveller, and the site has been going for some time now, I don't think ATOC can get rid of it. I think there is a strong case for allowing it...

There's absolutley no problem with that, apart from the fact the domain name is registered in the UK, it's a UK group that own the data, it's a UK bit of software, the site is owned by a UK server company, and I have a feeling they have their servers in the UK, so I doubt a bit of US law will apply.