Nexus unveils the NE answer to Oyster

[142094]

Thought this deserved its own thread in the Ticketing section. As far as I can tell this is the only use of smartcards outside of London, apart from trials such as Yorcard in South and West Yorkshire. Under 16s the first to get the new card, then rolling out to commuters and everyone else later in the year. Not sure who advised on the name (shame that MetroCard is already used ). Then again Oyster sounded funny when it first came out.

More info here

 

[Pumbaa]

London Midland has 'the Key', which will be rolled out across the network, currently being trialled in Worcester area. Good to see TOCs and PTEs getting a shifty onto smart ticketing though, its a good step forward.

 

[scotsman]

Meanwhile ScotRail has the spectacular ['flop' ] Smart Ticketing card

I am one of c.1000(?) people in Scotland to have one

 

[Via Bank]

SWT have been de-hooding their yellow ITSO readers at all of their stations in the Woking area, and they're switched on, but there's no sign of actually being offered a smartcard yet. Maybe they're waiting for TfL to finally integrate Oyster with ITSO before they do so - which IIRC was the original reason for not wanting to install Oyster top-up readers immediately at SWT-managed Londons stations.

 

[WatcherZero]

GMPTE launched the IGO under 16 card at the start of the school term in September last year, becomes compulsory from May. Its a Smartcard that can be remotely deactivated if they want to remove some problem childs concession privliges, as yet cant carry money on it like the Bolton Citizen card (which was partly GM's Smartcard pilot test). Their reportedly planning a trial on one tram line before a rollout program of cash carrying smartcards to the whole tram network, then bus network, then rail network. I believe their targeting 2012 for a partial launch and 2013 for full rollout.

 

[Jollycam]

Centro have already installed smart ticket machines on the majority of buses in the West Midlands although the only people who can use it at present are Concessionary Pass holders. Info here

It would be nice if one card could be used across different regions, though so far I've not seen anything written about linking regional schemes together.

 

[142094]

Centro have already installed smart ticket machines on the majority of buses in the West Midlands although the only people who can use it at present are Concessionary Pass holders. Info here

It would be nice if one card could be used across different regions, though so far I've not seen anything written about linking regional schemes together.

In a few years you'll be able to use the Nexus card on buses between Berwick and Middlesbrough, so that is sort of regional. However if all the different smart cards are ITSO compliant (which this one is), then that will make it easier to integrate across the country.

 

[mattdickinson]

SWT have been de-hooding their yellow ITSO readers at all of their stations in the Woking area, and they're switched on, but there's no sign of actually being offered a smartcard yet. Maybe they're waiting for TfL to finally integrate Oyster with ITSO before they do so - which IIRC was the original reason for not wanting to install Oyster top-up readers immediately at SWT-managed Londons stations.

The card can be ordered from http://www.stagecoachsmart.com/

However there don't seem to be any SWT products available to load on it as yet.

 

[scotsman]

The card can be ordered from http://www.stagecoachsmart.com/

However there don't seem to be any SWT products available to load on it as yet.

I've just applied for one (and for precisely no reason!)

 

[JKJimar53]

I've just applied for one (and for precisely no reason!)

Do you have to put a ticket on the card, or can you just buy a card.

 

[scotsman]

Do you have to put a ticket on the card, or can you just buy a card.

You simply apply for the card

 

[Fred26]

What worries me about these cards is that they lead to quieter ticket offices and at some stage, closures. I like railway staff and think there should be more of them, not less.
Saying that, I am in favour of smart cards. One for the whole of the network would be fantastic, but the staff loss does really concern me.

 

[swt_passenger]

SWT have had their ITSO Smartcard on trial for over a year, on the following routes:

Staines to Wokingham/Windsor & Eton Riverside
Basingstoke to Weymouth including Lymington branch
Isle of Wight

So Nexus aren't the first after all, and anyone with a Stagecoach Smart can use it!

These are 'seasons only' cards though, there is no PAYG functionality.

IMHO for anyone still hoping for national PAYG, it'll never happen outside discrete urban areas. Even within SWT's network peak singles can easily run to £50 - and that's before you consider First class...

 

[bnm]

Not sure who advised on the name (shame that MetroCard is already used ). Then again Oyster sounded funny when it first came out.

Not sure about 'Pop'. Maybe Nexus could've started a theme with marine creature names; perhaps 'Lobster'. That's what a friend's Gran calls her Oyster card!

 

[WatcherZero]

SWT have had their ITSO Smartcard on trial for over a year, on the following routes:

Staines to Wokingham/Windsor & Eton Riverside
Basingstoke to Weymouth including Lymington branch
Isle of Wight

So Nexus aren't the first after all, and anyone with a Stagecoach Smart can use it!

These are 'seasons only' cards though, there is no PAYG functionality.

IMHO for anyone still hoping for national PAYG, it'll never happen outside discrete urban areas. Even within SWT's network peak singles can easily run to £50 - and that's before you consider First class...

Looks like Dft is going to bring it in as a franchise requirement starting with the West Coast franchise.

 

[will1337]

I think that smart cards are going to lead to a lot of fare rises and confusion, especially if there are lots of differently branded local schemes even if they are all compatible.

There'll be a lot more stupidity like trying to catch a 09:31 train with Oyster and not being able to touch in without being charged peak fare.

How will advance fares work? Will you buy them online/at the station as now in which case you may as well just get a paper ticket?

I agree with SWT Traveller that it'll be pretty useless for long distance journeys. You'd have to look up prices in advance if say you want to travel London - Birmingham at peak time or hope that you have £150 of credit. I'd also wonder how it could discriminate between travelling on different TOCs. It would be very irritating to be charged Virgin prices for an LM service.

Travel within PTA areas with a smartcard is a lot more feasible but you still have the problem of using multiple tickets if you travel out of that area and possibly having to break your journey to touch in. Going through multiple PTEs you may have to do it multiple times.

Oyster has been a pain for me, it kills opportunist journeys. Say I'm at the station and I see a bus going where I am but the train isn't for a while. If I've already touched in then I'm committed to taking the train. If doing a London bash or want to take the long way to somewhere on a Travelcard then it massively complicates things as I have to stick to valid routes between places that I can touch in and out. Then I have to wait to be able to touch back in again at a station if I've just left for a smoke and then there's the hassle of finding somewhere to top up (especially on a sunday) as most TOCs still don't sell Oyster products. To add insult to injury as a 16-25 holder it doesn't save me any money. In fact it costs a lot more than a paper Travelcard if I intend on travelling past midnight. Another sneaky fare rise there which is why most of the time I just buy a paper ticket instead.

Bearing in mind most barriers seem to be able to take tickets as quickly as most go through them I fail to see the point in smartcards. Possible theories include the authorities keeping tabs on people, them being shiny new initiatives, being able to close ticket offices and making sure that everyone pays as much as possible.

The only good that I think comes out of them is on buses where they really do speed up boarding although how they'll work in more rural areas with distance based pricing I do not know.

 

[button_boxer]

With oyster you can buy travelcards online or arrange refunds over the phone and your card picks them up at the gateline when you touch in. A similar system could work for advance tickets, but you'd have to be able to nominate which station you wanted to collect the ticket from. If they set it so you can only pick up an A-B advance at the gateline of station A then it'd mean you couldn't do split ticketing with an A-B CDR and a B-C advance on one train. Though the TOCs may consider this a positive...

 

[wibble]

SWT have been de-hooding their yellow ITSO readers at all of their stations in the Woking area, and they're switched on, but there's no sign of actually being offered a smartcard yet. Maybe they're waiting for TfL to finally integrate Oyster with ITSO before they do so - which IIRC was the original reason for not wanting to install Oyster top-up readers immediately at SWT-managed Londons stations.

SWT do offer Smartcard to season ticket renewals at the 'country ends' where there is little or no overlap with other TOCs. They had a franchise commitment to instal ITSO readers at all stations and operate a trial by the end of 2009.

Oyster/ITSO intergration (aka IOP or 'ITSO on Prestige') was a DfT funded project which would've allowed season ticket holders to replace their paper season ticket (e.g. an out-boundary Travelcard) for an SWT (or any other TOC's smartcard). Unfortunately, ITSO Smartcards won't be valid into the London area until the DfT sorts out IOP. (The Oystercard was only designed for London's zonal pricing so has little use on National Rail journeys.)

SWT will offer Oyster PAYG top-ups from their in-boundary TVMs at some point during 2011.

 

[stut]

I suppose it's far too much to hope that someone thought of making the cards mutually compatible, so that one card can be used all over the country once it's all rolled out?

 

[142094]

Not sure about 'Pop'. Maybe Nexus could've started a theme with marine creature names; perhaps 'Lobster'. That's what a friend's Gran calls her Oyster card!

Ha that's a good one. Add an extra 'o' to Pop and see what you get...

I suppose it's far too much to hope that someone thought of making the cards mutually compatible, so that one card can be used all over the country once it's all rolled out?

They all should be ITSO compliant in the future so no reason why one smartcard from one area can't be used in another.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Nottingham City Transport have had smartcards for a number of years for use on busses & trams.

TrentBarton have the Mango smartcard

 

[LexyBoy]

They all should be ITSO compliant in the future so no reason why one smartcard from one area can't be used in another.

London Midland certainly advise that any compatible card can be used - though it would need to be activated/registered for each system.

My concern with smartcard ticketing is that it's being done on a TOC-by-TOC basis, thus I'm a bit worried that the days of integrated through-ticketing (at least without paying for the privilege) are numbered. What might happen is : first, TOCs bring in smartcards for their services, then have discounts for smartcard users (as with Oyster). Next, they argue that paper ticket prices should not be regulated or are allowed to rise since smartcard tickets are cheaper/fall under regulation. Result: fine for journeys wholly on that TOC, but anyone wanting flexibility where more than one TOC operates, or travelling on a journey requiring more than one TOC, is penalised.

More optimistically, TOCs will bring in smartcards for seasons etc, then ATOC will get them all to be interoperable and bring in single tickets.

I would imagine that for non-season journeys, suburban operators like LM could have a true PAYG system (at least in the urban areas), whilst other tickets would be bought at the ticket office/TVM/online and loaded onto the card. Hopefully a single ticket could be bought and remain on the card until "activated" by touching in / on a reader, so tickets wouldn't have to be bought on the day. Best of all would be if tickets could be bought on the way to the station by phone (or via an app) which are magically transferred to the card - not sure if this is possible though.

 

[MikeWh]

This paragraph interests me quite a bit.

Oyster has been a pain for me, it kills opportunist journeys. Say I'm at the station and I see a bus going where I am but the train isn't for a while. If I've already touched in then I'm committed to taking the train.

If there is a serious possibility of an either/or opportunity then surely you are better not touching in until you know which way you are going. Otherwise you run the risk of missing the bus while you get out of the station?

If doing a London bash or want to take the long way to somewhere on a Travelcard then it massively complicates things as I have to stick to valid routes between places that I can touch in and out.

This is the only time that I agree paper tickets are better, although they've recently increased the maximum journey times in zones 1-3 so there is a little less chance of being caught by maximum journey times.

Then I have to wait to be able to touch back in again at a station if I've just left for a smoke and then there's the hassle of finding somewhere to top up (especially on a sunday) as most TOCs still don't sell Oyster products.

At most stations you will start a new journey straight away if you touch in straight after touching out. Which station have you found that you have to wait at? AFAIK it is only SWT that don't provide Oyster facilities at their TVMs, and that is being resolved this year. If you use your Oyster most weeks then I advise auto top-up as that removes the worry about running out.

To add insult to injury as a 16-25 holder it doesn't save me any money.

It can do. Take your Oyster card and your 16-25 card to an Underground station and ask them to register the discount. Then you'll get a third off all off-peak rail tickets (inc tube/dlr) and the off-peak price cap. You even get the discount off the 1-2 and 1-4 price caps which you don't with a paper travelcard. Take a look at my site and print off the advice about getting the discount applied in case you get a clerk who doesn't know what to do.

In fact it costs a lot more than a paper Travelcard if I intend on travelling past midnight. Another sneaky fare rise there which is why most of the time I just buy a paper ticket instead.

Whilst there is a known problem with some post midnight travel I'd be interested to know where you've hit issues. If you do get overcharged then the Oyster helpline will refund you. You shouldn't hit a problem on any line where services stop by about 1am, it's only the few lines that run all night.

Overall, apart from bashing, I would always recommend using Oyster. A lot of people just buy a travelcard for convenience, or in case they need it, but then don't make full use of it. With Oyster you only pay the price cap if you use it enough.

 

[LexyBoy]

Nottingham City Transport have had smartcards for a number of years for use on busses & trams.

TrentBarton have the Mango smartcard

Oxford Bus Company have one too ("the Key", I assume the same as London Midland's "the Key" since they are both Go-Ahead companies). It's only for seasons though (at least was last I noticed, I may be out of date!) - thus somewhat defeating the object IMHO since it takes longer to bleep the card than it would to show the driver a pass!

On their Espresso service to London they have a 12-trip card which I used for a while, was very good value (something like equivalent to the price of 5 day returns).

Reading Buses have one too which can be loaded with season tickets or cash - I can't find any useful information online, but I don't think it will cap at a day ticket rate.

 

[alexdodds]

Oxford Bus Company have one too ("the Key", I assume the same as London Midland's "the Key" since they are both Go-Ahead companies). It's only for seasons though (at least was last I noticed, I may be out of date!) - thus somewhat defeating the object IMHO since it takes longer to bleep the card than it would to show the driver a pass!

Go North East also have thekey smartcard. The readers on all their buses will be switched on in a couple of weeks time.

 

[Fincra5]

I suprised I haven't seen any ITSO readers at our Southern stations yet, given its meant to role out beginning of next year. But maybe they take very little to put in.

 

[FrozenPoints]

With smart ticketing being rolled out slowly what happens to ticket office staff. How will they maximise their commisioning, as is the case already on the London Underground.

 

[swt_passenger]

Looks like Dft is going to bring it in as a franchise requirement starting with the West Coast franchise.

They have already brought ITSO requirements in on recent franchises - SN's is required to have it up and running throughout by Jan 2012.

 

[Deerfold]

Nottingham City Transport have had smartcards for a number of years for use on busses & trams.

TrentBarton have the Mango smartcard

And Lothian Buses have have had one for some time (I've not been to edinburgh for nearly two years and it was worth getting a weekly season on one for my 3 day-stay as it was valid on the fastest route past where I was staying and the day tickets weren't). The earliest reference I've found to NCT cards was 2006 and I'm sure Pathfinder had had them for several years before they were taken over by NCT.

 

[swt_passenger]

I suprised I haven't seen any ITSO readers at our Southern stations yet, given its meant to role out beginning of next year. But maybe they take very little to put in.

They didn't take that long on SWT, they retrofitted all the S&B TVMs with a card reader over a period of a few months - but many already had a removable plate on the front as delivered.

But for machines that have already had an Oyster 'pad' fitted I think the changes would be internal, the same 'pad' would be used and the electronics should determine what type of card you were using. That's what happens on ticket barriers apparently - they are exactly the same style at Southampton and Waterloo for example, but with different logos. But of course Oyster itself should be made into an ITSO system anyway over the next year or two.

As someone said earlier - it is this Oyster/ITSO compatibility that is at the root of the supposed 'SWT problems' - and IMHO having read the franchise spec it is 100% down to the DfT promising something they couldn't achieve.