Newquay line problems on Saturday 25 July 2015

[Mister Ed]

I note from Real Time Trains (RTT) that there were some problems on the Newquay line last Saturday. Can anyone help explain, please?

1A86 11:30 from Newquay to Paddington was 6 minutes late at Goonbarrow Junction and 38 late at St Blazey then terminated at Par, RTT stating “This service was cancelled between Par and London Paddington due to late arrival of an inbound service (YI).”

Meanwhile 1C72 07:36 from Paddington at to Newquay waited at Goonbarrow from 12:12 to 1253, arriving at Newquay 50 late. It turned round in 3 minutes to form 1A89 from Newquay 16 late, but spent from 1411 to 14:56 at Goonbarrow, leaving 61 late.

1V45 07:07 from Manchester waited from 13:42 to 14:35 at Par, passed St Blazey at 14:43 61 late then crossed 1A89 at Goonbarrow from 14:54 to 14:57.

Services before and after those mentioned above appeared to be running satisfactorily. In particular 1C71 9:46 from Par to Newquay due 10:47 was on time so the explanation on RTT appears incorrect.

I tried to find out what really caused this disruption but all I could find was a vague reference to signalling problems that day in Cornwall in another website.

Can anyone explain what caused these delays, please? What happened to the HST forming 1A86 when it was cancelled at Par?

 

[marky7890]

What happened to the HST forming 1A86 when it was cancelled at Par?

Went ECS to Plymouth at 14:31 http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O13847/2015/07/25/advanced

 

[Mister Ed]

Thank you for this. I note also that 9 minutes after arrival at Plymouth there was a VSTP (short notice) departure from the same platform by 5Z74 HST to St Philip's March HST depot, so probably the same HST set.

 

[irish_rail]

Without going into details, which I wont, there was an operating incident involving one of those trains which required further investigation of staff etc etc.

 

[headshot119]

Without going into details, which I wont, there was an operating incident involving one of those trains which required further investigation of staff etc etc.

What you'll only give them a token gesture of what happened.

 

[irish_rail]

What you'll only give them a token gesture of what happened.

hahaha indeed

 

[Oldschool]

What you'll only give them a token gesture of what happened.

Oh god!

 

[PHILIPE]

This may have been something of a sensitive nature, even involving disciplinary action, The less said about it, the better.

 

[455driver]

This may have been something of a sensitive nature, even involving disciplinary action, The less said about it, the better.

It may well, actually it probably will!




Please no speculating!

 

[bnm]

I tried to find out what really caused this disruption but all I could find was a vague reference to signalling problems that day in Cornwall in another website.

Can anyone explain what caused these delays, please? What happened to the HST forming 1A86 when it was cancelled at Par?

1A86 passed Goonbarrow signal box without collecting the single line token for Goonbarrow-St Blazey and without returning the 'one train only' staff for the Newquay section.

Service terminated at Par as no relief driver available.

 

[irish_rail]

Not sure that is quite what happened.....

 

[bnm]

Not sure that is quite what happened.....

That's a first hand account from someone I know who was travelling on the service, backed up by entries on Tyrell that I've seen.

 

[najaB]

That's a first hand account from someone I know who was travelling on the service, backed up by entries on Tyrell that I've seen.

That is such a monumental c**k-up that I can understand reluctance to believe it. I'm struggling to accept it myself.

 

[LowLevel]

I believe a token for the Matlock branch was once found after much searching on a train at St Pancras so anything can happen! I can never quite understand why people who don't do the job go into 'I can't believe this has happened' mode - it takes one momentary lack of concentration to cause anything from a SPAD to an overrun to forgetting to stop for a token exchange - particularly if you're running on clear signals. Doesn't make it a good thing but I can certainly believe it happening !

 

[455driver]

1A86 passed Goonbarrow signal box without collecting the single line token for Goonbarrow-St Blazey and without returning the 'one train only' staff for the Newquay section.

Service terminated at Par as no relief driver available.

Yeah HS drivers do the token exchanges sooooo often it is hard to believe they could get it wrong isn't it! :roll:

 

[LAX54]

That's a first hand account from someone I know who was travelling on the service, backed up by entries on Tyrell that I've seen.

Thats not what the Log says !

 

[LAX54]

Tyrell does not tell the whole story as to why he still had the token Pager messages are short by their very nature and say what has happened to give a jist of events, they do not give 'details' and in fact reading that 'message' it seems / looks incorrect, but of course that was sent out before the exact and correct details were obtained.

 

[IanXC]

I have deleted a number of poats which were beginning to speculate around the cause of this possible incident. It's clear that there is different information available about this incident, so I would ask that everyone refrains from further speculation until further details are made public.

Please PM me if you are unsure or have questions.

Thanks

 

[bb21]

Can I just reiterate that a decision has been made to tidy up the thread so a line has been drawn under this and time to move on. There is no apportionment of blame taking place.

 

[Tomnick]

Yeah HS drivers do the token exchanges sooooo often it is hard to believe they could get it wrong isn't it! :roll:

Its nice to see the usual suspects indignation that somebody (especially everyones favourite, a train driver) could make a mistake!

To be fair, getting it wrong could have very serious consequences indeed. Of course, it wasn't as simple as a driver forgetting to collect the token at Abermule either...!

 

[headshot119]

Not sure that is quite what happened.....

It is exactly what happened I can assure you.

At the end of the day everyone can make a mistake. No one was injured, no one was killed, move along people nothing to see here.

 

[Tomnick]

It's not quite exactly what happened, at least not if the implication is that it's wholly the driver's fault!

 

[bnm]

It is exactly what happened I can assure you.

Thank you. All sorts of criticism came my way despite not speculating one bit.

 

[headshot119]

It's not quite exactly what happened, at least not if the implication is that it's wholly the driver's fault!

I didn't blame anyone in my post, nor did bnm. It's a fact that the train entered the advance section with the token for the rear section.

I can see from both a signalers perspective, and from a drivers perspective of how it can happen; it's actually quite easy to do. I don't have any idea who's fault it actually was and frankly I don't care. Despite what people think railway staff can make mistakes, and I've made a few myself.

I also know for a fact that the signaler involved took prompt action by pressing the "All Trains Stop" button on the GSMR console. The incident train stopped a very short distance into the section.

This incident has been blown out of all proportion, both on the internet, and for the staff involved. The moment the "All Trains Stop" message was broadcast the risk of anything bad happening had sunk to almost 0.

Thank you. All sorts of criticism came my way despite not speculating one bit.

People tend to be like that on here unfortunately. A lot of it from people who don't understand what's involved. Tomnick that isn't aimed at you by the way.

 

[Tomnick]

I'd guess, from your post, that you know the full story (at least as detailed on the internal systems), but I think that it's too easy for folk to come to the wrong conclusion from bnm's post that only really told half the story. As you say, though, things were made safe very quickly as soon as it became clear that an error had been made, and that's what matters. I'm sure that the actions of both parties will be looked at in great detail - but (equally, not a dig at you!) it's important not to fuel any speculation in the meantime.

 

[455driver]

It is exactly what happened I can assure you.

At the end of the day everyone can make a mistake. No one was injured, no one was killed, move along people nothing to see here.

That's isnt what happened at all, what I will say (confidentiality prevents me posting the whole story) is that at no time was there any possibility of there.

The (rather small) problem was sorted up shortly after it was spotted without any danger at all!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I also know for a fact that the signaller involved took prompt action by pressing the "All Trains Stop" button on the GSMR console. The incident train stopped a very short distance into the section.

Definitely one of those 'oh bollox' moments, quick thinking prevented this turning into anything that could have been considered even slightly dangerous, it certainly wasn't dangerous at any stage and never likely to!

This incident has been blown out of all proportion, both on the internet, and for the staff involved. The moment the "All Trains Stop" message was broadcast the risk of anything bad happening had sunk to almost 0.

Indeed it has, a tiny (miniscule even) error where as soon as the problem was spotted was corrected and there was absolutely zero chance of anything bad happening even if it wasn't corrected.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

1A86 passed Goonbarrow signal box without collecting the single line token for Goonbarrow-St Blazey and without returning the 'one train only' staff for the Newquay section.

Service terminated at Par as no relief driver available.

You are wrong, the one train staff was correctly returned to the signaller!

 

[Max]

I think it's fair to say that there are two different versions of this story, and at this stage it's not possible to say which is the accurate one. As a result, it's probably best to draw a line under this for now and await further official information before we continue the discussion.

Please PM one of the staff team if you have any further information or updates.