Newport Transport

[pwharley]

Does Newport Transport have any outstations?

I'm sure they used to have one? Somewhere along the A40 just north of Monmouth, I'm sure I saw Newport Bus vehicles parked up there? Would be great to see that back...

That was Keltruck, near Whitchurch. As Newport Transport was a large Scania operator, they got agreement to park buses there, with drivers returning to Newport by car.

The site is now a used car dealership, so there's little chance of it becoming available again.
(Image is from Google Street View)

 

[markymark2000]

1) you want buses to return to 100% pre covid yet they were designed for different travel patterns.

No. I said that the stats from Christian aren't a fair test. Everything would have had to return to 100% as then all the connections would be there. Some people would be put off by the poorer connections on Saturdays and so naturally there would be less passengers on Saturdays.

2) you have an obsession with Saturdays being the sane. All over the world there are examples where Saturdays do not match Monday to Fridays. The volume of people is not the same

3) you want to see a reduction in the cost to the public yet you are advocating spending more money to bring Saturdays the same as Monday to Friday.

Saturday service can be reduced in a logical way, such as a few 'NS' (Not Saturday) trips. You don't rewrite a whole timetable. Essentially, try not to make huge cuts to Saturdays, if you must, do it in a way that is still passenger friendly and doesn't make a complete mess for passengers. As evidenced earlier on in the thread, there are many examples of Newport Bus making a hash of Saturday timetables doing stupid things such as making most trips run 4 minutes earlier on Saturdays on the 42/43. No reason why things couldn't run the same as Mon-Fri but Newport Bus makes an active effort to make timetables a mess. Then they wonder why people are travelling on buses less on Saturdays! You'd think this was rocket science.
The 68 for example, it's the same number of trips Mon-Fri as Saturday. Same start time, same finish time. It's just the trips in the middle run at completely different times. As such, it shouldn't need additional funds. Mileage wise no difference, operating hours, no difference. Still 1 bus, 1 driver can do the lot. Just amending the trips inbetween.

5) you clearly have some axe to grind with Newport Bus & Monmouthshire Council as you are conveniently ignoring the situation elsewhere

I'm talking about Newport Bus in a Newport Bus thread. If you want to talk about other operators, start a thread and I will give my opinions on there. I've given my opinions on many other operators in the relevant threads. People dealing with buses making such decisions need holding accountable. Decisions like approving these timetables are extremely damaging for the whole industry as it reinforces that buses are confusing and puts up barriers for people when choosing how to travel. It's because of stupidity like seen here why people are put off using buses.

6) which would you prefer? Agency staff or the service not run? Who do you think will staff your extra Saturday buses?

Well, if you are full of agency staff, maybe don't take on other work until you can resource what you have! Also, I know other operators who wanted to look into tenders but were put off in April because of the insistence on interworking everything and having bigger lots (comments included Monmouthshire and Newport councils). They wanted little routes with a PVR of 1 or 2. Perhaps if operators weren't, as Christian said it, 'explicitly encouraged to submit alternative timetables and linked bids', smaller ops would have opted for some work and therefore could have sorted it all properly.

7) what branded buses are Newport not using correctly

I never said Newport Bus had branded buses. What I have said though is that Anslow branded buses for the 63/69 and the council branded the minibus for the 65. These routes no longer have route branded buses. Route branding is proven in the industry to help increase patronage.
Just for proof that route branded buses did exist.
Phil Anslow branded bus for the 63/69 - https://flic.kr/p/2pEZA8q
Monmouthshire Council branded minibus for the 65 (on the window) - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=626928276129560

 

[kijeta]

FWIW The Monmouthshire County Council tender document specified first & last buses, frequency, and school services. Operators were free to design timetables on that basis (although the tender also included sample timetables). The tender also explicitly encouraged alternative timetables and linked bids, though award was 100% price.

For route 75 the tender only required the Sudbrook and Caerwent legs - but as the old timetable had lots of downtime Newport Bus decided to add the Magor/STJ** element to it. I guess you could argue that the 75 is now three interoperated routes, a bit like the C1/C2/C3 in Chepstow. Those have separate route numbers and timetables, but with footnotes telling passengers if the trip continues to somewhere interesting (e.g. Chepstow Tesco's).

Mod note: Please clarify STJ

I was wondering if you could please provide some source for the stipulated requirements from MCC's tender documents?

 

[Christian Schm]

@kijeta - it's on e-tender wales, and there was also a recent FOI request. I've tried to attach it, but this is my first ever attempt.

No. I said that the stats from Christian aren't a fair test. Everything would have had to return to 100% as then all the connections would be there. Some people would be put off by the poorer connections on Saturdays and so naturally there would be less passengers on Saturdays.

Hmm, I would argue that 'everything would have had to return to 100%' as a bit of a lame excuse. Covid or no covid, bus networks change, so you never get that. I mean, even those routes that have the same level of service have seen the times change.

The number of interchange passengers is also quite low, so I don't think a few 'poor connections' will make a noticeable difference. In fact, if anything, with Newport Bus now running everything in the southern half, and hgaving a much higher range of tickets that allow interchange from one service to another, there may be more connecting passengers.

Saturday service can be reduced in a logical way, such as a few 'NS' (Not Saturday) trips.

I'd agree, that is generally better. Ideally Sundays should leave at the same minutes too. And in a rural network there should be less journey time differences.

But

The 68 for example, it's the same number of trips Mon-Fri as Saturday. Same start time, same finish time. It's just the trips in the middle run at completely different times. As such, it shouldn't need additional funds. Mileage wise no difference, operating hours, no difference. Still 1 bus, 1 driver can do the lot. Just amending the trips inbetween.

No, route 68 isn't just 1 bus, at least on Mondays-Fridays drivers & vehicles must interoperate with other routes, otherwise all the school and college connections couldn't be made. This is most obvious in the timetable of route 60, which serves both Monmouth Comp and Usk College.

I never said Newport Bus had branded buses. What I have said though is that Anslow branded buses for the 63/69 and the council branded the minibus for the 65. These routes no longer have route branded buses. Route branding is proven in the industry to help increase patronage.
Just for proof that route branded buses did exist.
Phil Anslow branded bus for the 63/69 - https://flic.kr/p/2pEZA8q
Monmouthshire Council branded minibus for the 65 (on the window) - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=626928276129560

Well, the MCC (Monmouthshire County Council) vehicle wasn't route branded.

Newport Bus may not have branded vehicles (except on route T7), but quite a number of nice & new electric vehicles, so I wouldn't say that vehicle quality is in any way worse.

 

[markymark2000]

Hmm, I would argue that 'everything would have had to return to 100%' as a bit of a lame excuse. Covid or no covid, bus networks change, so you never get that.

Yes but you'd be comparing apples with apples. You can't say less people are using buses oh but by the way we cut most of the bus network in half so it was significantly less useful. That isn't a fair comparison nor a fair justification for the actions of Monmouthshire Council!

No, route 68 isn't just 1 bus, at least on Mondays-Fridays drivers & vehicles must interoperate with other routes, otherwise all the school and college connections couldn't be made. This is most obvious in the timetable of route 60, which serves both Monmouth Comp and Usk College.

How do you work this out? the 69 is a 1 bus diagram. None of the trips overlap and 15:20 from the High School could run off the 15:07 arrival. Alternatively move some trips forward by 5 minutes rather than the bus having 2x 35 minute breaks in the morning.
It's not a 1 driver duty, but certainly is a 1 bus duty.

The 60 only has 1 trip each way which would need to interwork in Monmouth. That being 07:08 from Newport, into Monmouth 08:25 would have to interwork onto something else. The 08:08 from Monmouth to Newport would have to interwork off something else too. The rest of the timetable doesn't need to interwork in Monmouth. In Newport, the buses are tending to go back to the depot anyway for recharging.

Well, the MCC (Monmouthshire County Council) vehicle wasn't route branded.

You can see the branding on the photo which is linked. I was even on the bus and so I know it was branded.

Also on the Penallt Village Website they have a photo and you can see branding on the window. Sadly there are no photos which show the branding clearer but you can see it and if anyone can zoom in enough, you may be able to read some of the destinations that it is promoting.

Google Image Result for https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5e7ce150ff444a5882eb718e/882707f8-46ad-4034-b0c8-a5ba0df93685/electric+bus+outside+crop.jpg

 

[ATW158Xpress]

On the 75 route tender see on the MCC bid tender for routes that a new proposed route linking the Grange University Hospital and Severnside (Caldicot area) wonder when this service is due to start the same time as the 75 route started. I think it would make more sense to extend this service to the Grange Hospital.

 

[kijeta]

Yes but you'd be comparing apples with apples. You can't say less people are using buses oh but by the way we cut most of the bus network in half so it was significantly less useful. That isn't a fair comparison nor a fair justification for the actions of Monmouthshire Council!


How do you work this out? the 69 is a 1 bus diagram. None of the trips overlap and 15:20 from the High School could run off the 15:07 arrival. Alternatively move some trips forward by 5 minutes rather than the bus having 2x 35 minute breaks in the morning.
It's not a 1 driver duty, but certainly is a 1 bus duty.

The 60 only has 1 trip each way which would need to interwork in Monmouth. That being 07:08 from Newport, into Monmouth 08:25 would have to interwork onto something else. The 08:08 from Monmouth to Newport would have to interwork off something else too. The rest of the timetable doesn't need to interwork in Monmouth. In Newport, the buses are tending to go back to the depot anyway for recharging.


You can see the branding on the photo which is linked. I was even on the bus and so I know it was branded.

Also on the Penallt Village Website they have a photo and you can see branding on the window. Sadly there are no photos which show the branding clearer but you can see it and if anyone can zoom in enough, you may be able to read some of the destinations that it is promoting.

Google Image Result for https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5e7ce150ff444a5882eb718e/882707f8-46ad-4034-b0c8-a5ba0df93685/electric+bus+outside+crop.jpg

Here you go (source: I'm a Monmouth local)

(Image shows Route 65 Chepstow - Monmouth graphic on the window of a bus)

 

[Newport Lad]

I see an entry on vosa this week that Newport Bus has a new route from Thornbury to Newtown. This replaces the Applegates service. Is this odd?

 

[Christian Schm]

On the 75 route tender see on the MCC bid tender for routes that a new proposed route linking the Grange University Hospital and Severnside (Caldicot area) wonder when this service is due to start the same time as the 75 route started. I think it would make more sense to extend this service to the Grange Hospital.

That Grange service is unlikely to happen. MCC (Monmouthshire County Council) asked for quite a bit stuff, and there wasn’t enough funding for all.

And with Newport Bus having extended route 75 it is difficult to see any change (at least of the Mon-Sat daytime service) until more is known how that pans out.

The Grange hospital really should have never been built in that awful position.

 

[markymark2000]

Newport Bus are expanding again, this time it's Herefordshire. The 36 Monmouth - Hereford service has been won by Newport Bus. They have cut out the layover breaks to put in an extra round trip in the middle of the day. They have also put an extra evening round trip on the service. New Sunday service as well.

66 - Monmouth - Hereford

Timetable for 66 - Monmouth - Hereford

www.newportbus.co.uk

Spoiler: New timetable

 

[Christian Schm]

As a result of Newport Bus winning that tender, the X60 also gains a trip (but only in one direction).

There are also a couple of new services in Newport and Monmouthshire - see here

 

[markymark2000]

As a result of Newport Bus winning that tender, the X60 also gains a trip (but only in one direction).

Is that the trip starting 7th October?

 

[bristol1996]

Newport Bus are expanding again, this time it's Herefordshire. The 36 Monmouth - Hereford service has been won by Newport Bus. They have cut out the layover breaks to put in an extra round trip in the middle of the day. They have also put an extra evening round trip on the service. New Sunday service as well.

66 - Monmouth - Hereford

Timetable for 66 - Monmouth - Hereford

www.newportbus.co.uk

Spoiler: New timetable

View attachment 164620

Is this really surprising, I am pretty sure they are a council owned company Newport bus but could be wrong..

 

[markymark2000]

Is this really surprising, I am pretty sure they are a council owned company Newport bus but could be wrong..

Correct, Newport Transport is owned by Newport Council.

 

[Dai Corner]

Is this really surprising, I am pretty sure they are a council owned company Newport bus but could be wrong..

Newport Transport is indeed wholly owned by Newport City Council.

What is surprising to me is that they're winning tenders far from home, presumably undercutting local operators.

 

[slowroad]

Newport Transport is indeed wholly owned by Newport City Council.

What is surprising to me is that they're winning tenders far from home, presumably undercutting local operators.

I suspect it, along with the Flixbus operation, be a strategy for dealing with the risks to the business associated with franchising in Wales.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Newport Transport is indeed wholly owned by Newport City Council.

What is surprising to me is that they're winning tenders far from home, presumably undercutting local operators.

The surprise is that they've undercut Stagecoach which isn't exactly local to Monmouth but across the country have been very adept at winning tendered work.

 

[Newport Lad]

Who would be the ‘local’ operator for the 66. Yeomans? But it starts and ends in Monmouth so they’d have about 45 minutes dead mileage - the same as Newport. But potentially easier to break.

Stagecoach - dead from Coleford but difficult to break with the new timetable. And do they even want it.

Nick Maddy - maybe but I don’t think Nick Maddy does Sundays.

Newport - not that far dead mileage and very easy to interwork for breaks.

Is it ‘undercutting’? They may have won it by being 1p cheaper.

 

[markymark2000]

Who would be the ‘local’ operator for the 66. Yeomans? But it starts and ends in Monmouth so they’d have about 45 minutes dead mileage - the same as Newport. But potentially easier to break.

Stagecoach - dead from Coleford but difficult to break with the new timetable. And do they even want it.

Nick Maddy - maybe but I don’t think Nick Maddy does Sundays.

Newport - not that far dead mileage and very easy to interwork for breaks.

Is it ‘undercutting’? They may have won it by being 1p cheaper.

I believe that some of the enhancements were done by Newport Bus themselves rather than being specified in the tender.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Who would be the ‘local’ operator for the 66. Yeomans? But it starts and ends in Monmouth so they’d have about 45 minutes dead mileage - the same as Newport. But potentially easier to break.

Stagecoach - dead from Coleford but difficult to break with the new timetable. And do they even want it.

Nick Maddy - maybe but I don’t think Nick Maddy does Sundays.

Newport - not that far dead mileage and very easy to interwork for breaks.

Is it ‘undercutting’? They may have won it by being 1p cheaper.

If it’s cheaper, it is undercutting

I’m not suggesting they’ve bought the business; just that Stagecoach have been very adept at winning tendered work. That said, Newport Bus are also pretty good as we saw with the Risca R1/R2

Also, I was suggesting that Stagecoach wasn’t that local rather than Newport Bus - apologies if that wasn’t clear

 

[Newport Lad]

Sorry - I assume undercutting to mean grossly underpricing to win work. The problem with tenders being that an operator can win by just 1p.

I wonder how keen Stagecoach are about these kind of routes now. Do they form part of their networks going forward. But I may be wrong.

Maybe for Newport are looking to build up relationships elsewhere so if franchising does come they have work lined up - not a bad plan. No real risk in doing so.

 

[Christian Schm]

i‘ve seen a few tenders, but still waiting for one where the difference is actually 1p. Or even less than £1k/year.

Note that operators also can and do reject offers. Especially if like last winter lots of councils put out lots of tenders: operators have to bid quite blind, and are likely to end up with some wins and losses that just don’t work in that combination.

So operators return some, then get offered others as offers get made to 2nd most economical bids. It would be a very stupid operator that is making a big loss on a contract in such a situation.

PS There is a benefit for councils too though: Asking for lots of bids means operators can and do submit linked bids which are usually decent value for money, so even if some contracts end up with second bidders I would argue that the overall effect is still good.

PPS I should probably added, there’s now no local operator in Monmouthshire - Newport Bus are obviously in Newport, Stagecoach in Cwmbran, Anslow up in Varteg, Nick Maddy and Yeomans in Englandshire (and neither are signed up to sell2wells where local Welsh councils tender their services)

 

[markymark2000]

i‘ve seen a few tenders, but still waiting for one where the difference is actually 1p. Or even less than £1k/year.

It's because of things like this why quality should also come into it.

Nick Maddy and Yeomans in Englandshire (and neither are signed up to sell2wells where local Welsh councils tender their services)

Rather silly on Nick Maddys part. Yeomans are a bit too far aren't they? Plus given the quality of their operation, probably best to keep them away from more work.

Is there a similar issue with Bristol based firms not being as much on Sell2Wales and so despite them being only just over the water, they wouldn't know about bidding on Chepstow work.

 

[Dai Corner]

Since new, the loudspeakers on the Yutongs have been silent apart from a chime when the Stop buttons are pressed and the screens have shown only the route number, destination, 'Bus Stopping' and a fairly random date and time.

However I was on one on a 35 yesterday and both audible and visual announcements were working properly. The main ''bug' I noticed was that the 35 is a circular route and the visual display showed 'Duffryn' throughout but the audio said 'City Centre' and 'Canol y Dynas' on inward part of the journey. Some stop names were different to those in the timetable and the visual displays showed only the Welsh names for Royal Gwent Hospital and Tredegar Park.