Newcastle to Glasgow

[Mr395008]

Hello,

I've got advance tickets to travel between Newcastle and Glasgow, they are East Coast and connections 1st class singles and we have to change at Edinburgh.

Is there a maximum amount of time to make the change or can I break the journey and a spend a few hours in Edinburgh before continuing to Glasgow?

Thanks!

Mr395008

 

[Oscar]

With an Advance you are not allowed to break your journey (defined as leaving station premises) but you are allowed to catch any reasonable connecting train (not defined, but generally taken to mean a train within 1-2 hours of arrival, although staff checking tickets on unreservable connections do not generally check the time of your booked train).

 

[soil]

I suggest you ask at Edinburgh station when you arrive if you can leave, and get them to endorse your ticket (write on the back) accordingly.

 

[michael769]

East Coast services generally call at the unbarriered platforms. I shall say no more

 

[cuccir]

True, but in this case our advice really should be 'no', you can't leave the station. The fact that it may be possible to ignore this restriction doesn't mean we should encourage it.

 

[p123]

I'd double check, but I do actually think the answer is yes you can spend a few hours in Edinburgh.

The official line from ScotRail is, and always has been, that Edinburgh to Glasgow services are all completely unreservable. Therefore, unless you fall foul of the only other restriction on this route (morning and evening peaks) then you cannot technically be breaking any rules as on your advance ticket you may travel on the booked train only - which cannot exist between Edinburgh and Glasgow.

I'll add a quick disclaimer that CrossCountry, should you decide to return on one of their services, may take a different view to what I've just said, as their trains do have reservable seats between Glasgow and Edinburgh.

 

[calc7]

I think we have to remember in this situation that what is intended, what is expected and what is possible are three different things.

 

[Oscar]

You can spend some time at Edinburgh Waverley, but leaving station premises counts as break of journey and is prohibited by the Terms and Conditions of Advances.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I'll add a quick disclaimer that CrossCountry, should you decide to return on one of their services, may take a different view to what I've just said, as their trains do have reservable seats between Glasgow and Edinburgh.

I've always had the impression that using a reservable service was fine, when you hold an advance ticket with route 'Toc x and connections', a7 long as you didn't have a seat or 'place' booked on another train. I've used xc instead of fsr between Glasgow and Edinburgh without any issues.

 

[Butts]

You can spend some time at Edinburgh Waverley, but leaving station premises counts as break of journey and is prohibited by the Terms and Conditions of Advances.

As has been pointed out EC Services arrive at ungated platforms so regardless of what the regulations say if you wish to leave the station do so.

Even if it was gated "I'm just popping out for a smoke" secures egress with no problems in my experience.

There are some EC services that actually go from Newcastle to Glasgow direct without having to change.

 

[yorkie]

I'd double check, but I do actually think the answer is yes you can spend a few hours in Edinburgh.

I agree you can spend a few hours at Edinburgh Waverley, providing the ticket terms were adhered to...

The official line from ScotRail is, and always has been, that Edinburgh to Glasgow services are all completely unreservable. Therefore, unless you fall foul of the only other restriction on this route (morning and evening peaks)

This is incorrect. This is an Advance ticket, not an Off Peak ticket.

then you cannot technically be breaking any rules as on your advance ticket you may travel on the booked train only - which cannot exist between Edinburgh and Glasgow.

The rule is: you may take earlier appropriate connecting services. You cannot break your journey.

I'll add a quick disclaimer that CrossCountry, should you decide to return on one of their services, may take a different view to what I've just said, as their trains do have reservable seats between Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Yes, they may enforce the condition stated in the Advance FAQs that states that you may take earlier non-reserveable trains (but not earlier reserveable trains), though that information is not (yet) fully in the public domain. The information that is in the public domain is that you can take appropriate connecting trains and cannot break your journey.

Note that having a meal at the pub opposite the ticket office (which takes bite cards by the way) is not a break of journey, while going to a pub somewhere else in the city would be a break of journey.
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As has been pointed out EC Services arrive at ungated platforms so regardless of what the regulations say if you wish to leave the station do so.

I am not sure what you are saying here, but we cannot officially encourage a breach of the conditions.

The OP has asked if he can break his journey. I take that to mean if it is allowed. The OP has not asked if it is possible to break the conditions.

Before anyone gets the wrong impression, I am absolutely not criticising anyone who does break their journey in the circumstances described, but we cannot deny it is not officially permitted and we cannot encourage breaching conditions.

Even if it was gated "I'm just popping out for a smoke" secures egress with no problems in my experience..

I agree that you are not breaking conditions if you ask permission to do something, they say yes and you do what you said you'd do.

There is a debate about what "Customers may not start, break and resume, or end their journey at any intermediate station except to change to/ from connecting trains as shown on the ticket(s) or other valid travel itinerary" means that was discussed in this thread (and is best not discussed again!): Getting off one stop early on an advance

 

[tamesidedepot]

There is a debate about what "Customers may not start, break and resume, or end their journey at any intermediate station except to change to/ from connecting trains as shown on the ticket(s) or other valid travel itinerary" means that was discussed in this thread (and is best not discussed again!): Getting off one stop early on an advance

Was on the 1555 MAN-EUS Pendo on Monday and the train manager actually announced over the PA that passengers who were travelling on an advanced ticket but were travelling earlier than their booked train had two options. Option one was to stay on the train and pay the full fare to wherever, or option two was get off at Stockport and wait for their booked train. Never heard this before but it seems in contradiction to the above. In all honesty I have never had a ticket checked between MAN and SPT on VT so anyone changing probably would be ok.

 

[yorkie]

Was on the 1555 MAN-EUS Pendo on Monday and the train manager actually announced over the PA that passengers who were travelling on an advanced ticket but were travelling earlier than their booked train had two options. Option one was to stay on the train and pay the full fare to wherever, or option two was get off at Stockport and wait for their booked train. Never heard this before but it seems in contradiction to the above. In all honesty I have never had a ticket checked between MAN and SPT on VT so anyone changing probably would be ok.

Yes, that way there are less arguments as passengers cannot justifiably say they were not warned! It is a sensible policy and goes beyond the minimum standards. They are not obliged to do this but it makes sense.

 

[calc7]

Virgin see the MAN-SPT corridor as all the same. No opportunity for a ticket check (and passengers would only get annoyed at being checked again on the premium section south of Crewe/Stoke).

For the same reason, the drinks trolley in First Class southbound never appears until at least after Stockport.

 

[BrianTheLion]

Glasgow to Newcastle is my regular route... and always use East Coast....

When arriving at Edinburgh you are infact given 3 options for travelling onward to Glasgow... the most common and quickest is via Falkirk to Glasgow Queen Street (every 15 mins usually), or you can travel via Shotts to Glasgow Central or via Bathgate to Glasgow Queen St I think... The two later options are normally around 30 mins or so longer I believe...

This plays to your advantage when it comes to hanging around Edinburgh for a couple of hours... Ive booked various itineraries in the past with different combinations but have always chose whatever service I wanted to when I got to Edinburgh... Nobody is going to know what your original booking Itinery says..

I actually usually stop off and get a bite to eat in the food court at the Princes Mall at the station the majority of the time before my onward journey... spending at least 30/45 mins each time...and have never been challenged when boarding the Glasgow train, I dont even think Ive ever had my reservation stub checked come to think of it...just the ticket to make sure it had EC & Connections, plus Newcastle to Glasgow CEN/QST...

Whether what I do is against the rules or not, I dont know... but there are no physical limitations, your ticket will work in the barriers where necessary... and I dont suppose the train guards on the Scotrail services are fully up to date with or probably even care about the arrival times of intercity services... maybe if It was the opposite and you were travelling onward from Edinburgh they might take exception to you arriving in Edinburgh 3hrs early... but I really cant see any issue with you stopping off for an hour at Edinburgh....

 

[calc7]

I wouldn't be surprised if there'd been an internal memo advising guards to accept the ticket on any train on the date shown between Edinburgh and Glasgow.

 

[island]

Was on the 1555 MAN-EUS Pendo on Monday and the train manager actually announced over the PA that passengers who were travelling on an advanced ticket but were travelling earlier than their booked train had two options. Option one was to stay on the train and pay the full fare to wherever, or option two was get off at Stockport and wait for their booked train. Never heard this before but it seems in contradiction to the above. In all honesty I have never had a ticket checked between MAN and SPT on VT so anyone changing probably would be ok.

The same or similar has been done from Birmingham New Street with wrong train or LDN MIDLAND ONLY tickets. The concession probably won't survive long into First's reign.

 

[calc7]

One of Virgin's nicer TMs has before let people who boarded their xx43 instead of LM's xx46 from Euston on LM Only tickets alight at MKC without charge. Though admittedly Virgin are only about 5 minutes quicker on that stretch anyway as the xx46 is the one that uses the Down Fast.

 

[reb0118]

... and I don't suppose the train guards on the Scotrail services are fully up to date with, or probably even care about the arrival times of intercity services...

Well I certainly do! I like to know if there is a chance of lots of passengers (esp with luggage) making a mad dash for my train off a late EC arrival. One has to be on the ball in those circumstances or you end up with the back coach full & standing with various goods & chattels spread over the vestibules - does not give a good impression. A tidy train is a happy train!

With regard to the OP's ticket - what we look for is the "& connections" bit and of course the destination. Some may ask to see the reservation coupon out of curiosity. I seriously doubt there will be any problems en route.

As an aside I personally feel that everyone should be forced to "break their journey" in our capital city for at least a few hours, Fair Edina - Scotia's Pride - I may put this suggestion to ATOC!