Newbie confuzzled by season tickets

[numpty1979]

All,

I hope you can help. I am considering moving from central London out to Meopham in Kent and am a bit confused about what I should do about a season ticket if I were to do so.

I work near City Thameslink station Mon-Fri and would need to be able to travel during peak times (it's 9-5 style job).

I like the idea of being able to upgrade the season ticket for individual high speed trips to Gravesend when needed, but do not need to always travel high speed.

National Rail's website is less than helpful in explaining which tickets are upgradable (if not all of them), how much an upgrade would cost each time, what the disadvantages of a Meopham-London Terminals ticket are as opposed to a Meopham-London Zone 1-6 (I presume not being able to travel on London transport?) or anything like that?

What would you do in my shoes? Apologies if I have miseed any important information.....

 

[wibble]

You can purchase a supplement from a Southeastern ticket machine or at any ticket office. The supplement for a single journey is £3.40.

Southeastern have some limited info on their website: http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/tickets-and-fares/ticket-types/high-speed-tickets/

 

[jopsuk]

If I put Meopham (MEP) to City Thameslink (CTK), arriving before 0900 and leaving after 1700, there's actually one direct service that arrives 0839 with the return at 1723 or 1807. There's also 1-change options (Swanley or Bromley South) that don't take much longer.

High Speed is irrevelevant- I don't think a season ticket would be upgradable in this case, as it's unclear where you'd be upgrading between. Upgrades exist for tickets from further into Kent- as Meopham is to the south and west of HS1, the fastest route to London is by the "classic" line anyway. You'd have to travel away from London (to Rochester) to meet HS1 services. If travelling to Gravesend from Meopham, your season ticket would not be valid for the journey.

For travel from Meopham to Gravesend, you'd have to buy a seperate ticket. On the leg from Rochester to gravesend you'd be able to use any train- even the "High Speed" ones- as there's no special fares- special fares only come into it once those trains go onto the High Speed line

People who know more than me would be able to say if a London Terminals season was valid to CTK- I know there's oddities about Thameslink stations. Unless you're likely to travel a lot during the day around London, there's no need for "Zones" validity.

 

[numpty1979]

Thanks Wibble - that's very good news. The National Rail site is so unclear. I think what it is saying though is that there are London Terminal tickets (cheapest) which presumably you need to buy an upgrade for high spped and those that include it already so you don't need an upgrade. Does that make sense?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If I put Meopham (MEP) to City Thameslink (CTK), arriving before 0900 and leaving after 1700, there's actually one direct service that arrives 0839 with the return at 1723 or 1807. There's also 1-change options (Swanley or Bromley South) that don't take much longer.

High Speed is irrevelevant- I don't think a season ticket would be upgradable in this case, as it's unclear where you'd be upgrading between. Upgrades exist for tickets from further into Kent- as Meopham is to the south and west of HS1, the fastest route to London is by the "classic" line anyway. You'd have to travel away from London (to Rochester) to meet HS1 services. If travelling to Gravesend from Meopham, your season ticket would not be valid for the journey.

For travel from Meopham to Gravesend, you'd have to buy a seperate ticket. On the leg from Rochester to gravesend you'd be able to use any train- even the "High Speed" ones- as there's no special fares- special fares only come into it once those trains go onto the High Speed line

People who know more than me would be able to say if a London Terminals season was valid to CTK- I know there's oddities about Thameslink stations. Unless you're likely to travel a lot during the day around London, there's no need for "Zones" validity.

Thanks - I hadn't thought of this. I was assuming that Gravesend - London more or less equalled Meopham to London. So I wouldn't be able to cycle into Gravesend and get the high speed on a Meopham-London season ticket plus upgrade if I fancied it?

(As you can probably tell - I haven't ever had to use the overland to commute).

 

[MikeWh]

City Thameslink is valid as part of London Terminals when used from the south. It is the station that replaced the old SR terminus of Holborn Viaduct.

 

[John @ home]

High Speed is irrevelevant- I don't think a season ticket would be upgradable in this case, as it's unclear where you'd be upgrading between. Upgrades exist for tickets from further into Kent- as Meopham is to the south and west of HS1, the fastest route to London is by the "classic" line anyway. You'd have to travel away from London (to Rochester) to meet HS1 services. If travelling to Gravesend from Meopham, your season ticket would not be valid for the journey.

For travel from Meopham to Gravesend, you'd have to buy a seperate ticket.

I don't agree. The current National Fares Manual shows these prices for Meopham - London Terminals season tickets. Using weekly ticket prices:

Meopham - London Terminals route Not Valid on HS1 £67.00
Meopham - London Terminals route Plus High Speed £94.70

In each case, a monthly is 3.84 times and an annual is 40 times the price of a weekly.

As MikeWh says, a ticket to London Terminals is valid to City Thameslink from the south. But it is not valid from the north, so if HS1 was used you would need another ticket St Pancras - City Thameslink (or bus, or walk etc.).

 

[numpty1979]

Thanks all, it's clearly not exactly simple.

I expect I will stick to the cheapest available season ticket but will clarify the high speed issue when I buy it. All I'm after is the possibility for upgrades.

I have an Oyster card so could use that for St Pancras - City Thameslink

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The upgrade would not allow you travel between St Pancras and City Thameslink, as it is not covered on a London Terminals ticket. See if a ticket to Farringdon is the same price. As a season ticket, this should, with an upgrade, be valid between St Pancras and City Thameslink.

 

[John @ home]

See if a ticket to Farringdon is the same price.

The current National Fares Manual shows these weekly prices for Meopham - Farringdon season tickets.

Meopham - Farringdon route Not Valid on HS1 £68.10
Meopham - Farringdon route Plus High Speed £95.80

 

[numpty1979]

Why would a Farringdon railcard with upgrade get me to City Thameslink but not a City Thamelink with upgrade? Farringdon is one stop north.

 

[button_boxer]

Why would a Farringdon railcard with upgrade get me to City Thameslink but not a City Thamelink with upgrade? Farringdon is one stop north.

As I understand it, tickets to "London Terminals" are not valid at or through Farringdon. Therefore a London Terminals season ticket would be valid into City Thameslink from the south and into St Pancras from the north (with the HS supplement), but wouldn't be valid for the connection from St Pancras to City Thameslink as that would pass through Farringdon.

However, a ticket to Farringdon from where you're starting would be valid to Farringdon from both the south and (with the HS supplement) the north. And all season tickets are valid for unlimited travel between any stations on the route of the ticket. So coming in to City Thameslink on the "classic" route you're simply finishing your journey one stop short of Farringdon, which is perfectly valid.

Coming in to London on the HS line you'd effectively be making a trip from Meopham to Farringdon via HS1, then staying on the same train at Farringdon to start another trip from Farringdon to Meopham (not via HS1), and getting off one stop later at City Thameslink. This is equally valid as long as you've paid the HS supplement for the Meopham to Farringdon journey.

 

[numpty1979]

I genuinely don't see the logic of that. If I was travelling from St Pancras to City Thameslink on a Farringdon ticket, I would reach Farringon before City Tshameslink. I would therefore surely need a further ticket from Farringdon to City Thameslink? The same would surely apply on the return leg too.

Apologies if I'm being thick.

 

[swt_passenger]

I genuinely don't see the logic of that. If I was travelling from St Pancras to City Thameslink on a Farringdon ticket, I would reach Farringon before City Tshameslink. I would therefore surely need a further ticket from Farringdon to City Thameslink? The same would surely apply on the return leg too.

Apologies if I'm being thick.

A season ticket is valid for unlimited travel between its end points, and at all intermediate stations between them. So as long as you are on the line of route you're OK.

So the previous poster was suggesting you make four journeys in a given day:
1. Meopham to Farringdon via St Pancras using an upgrade ticket inbound.
2. Farringdon to City Thameslink using your ordinary season now in it's outbound direction.
3. City Thameslink to Farringdon as above but inbound.
4. Farringdon to Meopham via St Pancras using your upgrade ticket outbound.

By the way, in an earlier post you seem to have accidentally referred tio a railcard - that is something completely different to a season ticket.

 

[LexyBoy]

If you work near City Thameslink then surely the best ticket is the cheapest one - Meopham to London Terminals, without high speed or travelcard. This is bound to be quicker than going the long way round and having to travel across London from St. Pancras.

I'd advise checking at the ticket office about HS upgrades - since your journey would involve going away from London initially it might be more complicated than just getting the HS upgrade.

If you end up using the HS route anyway you can always get the +HS ticket next time if you get a week or month ticket. If you can afford it though (or your company does a season ticket loan scheme) the annual ticket works out a fair bit cheaper - and you get a Gold Card which gives you 1/3 off train tickets in the South East.

 

[numpty1979]

A season ticket is valid for unlimited travel between its end points, and at all intermediate stations between them. So as long as you are on the line of route you're OK.

So the previous poster was suggesting you make four journeys in a given day:
1. Meopham to Farringdon via St Pancras using an upgrade ticket inbound.
2. Farringdon to City Thameslink using your ordinary season now in it's outbound direction.
3. City Thameslink to Farringdon as above but inbound.
4. Farringdon to Meopham via St Pancras using your upgrade ticket outbound.

By the way, in an earlier post you seem to have accidentally referred tio a railcard - that is something completely different to a season ticket.

Thanks, that's clearer - I was just being thick! And yes, I didn't mean to refer to a railcard.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If you work near City Thameslink then surely the best ticket is the cheapest one - Meopham to London Terminals, without high speed or travelcard. This is bound to be quicker than going the long way round and having to travel across London from St. Pancras.

I'd advise checking at the ticket office about HS upgrades - since your journey would involve going away from London initially it might be more complicated than just getting the HS upgrade.

If you end up using the HS route anyway you can always get the +HS ticket next time if you get a week or month ticket. If you can afford it though (or your company does a season ticket loan scheme) the annual ticket works out a fair bit cheaper - and you get a Gold Card which gives you 1/3 off train tickets in the South East.

Thanks. I was looking to get a loan from my employers and buy an annual ticket.