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New York Subway question

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DJ_K666

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I`ve just been looking at a website about the NYC subway system. One thing that seems to be unclear is this. Are all the cars on there driving/motor cars? They all seem to have a cab at each end and run in trains of around 8 - 10 cars. (so not really much longer than a London Underground train). Do they have any intermediate trailers a la Waterloo & City 1942 stock?
Just a question really. I might have to go have a holiday over there and investigate.

The New York Transit museum looks quite interesting too, just a load of restored cars just shunted into an old station and notice boards put by the doors.
 
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Aussie_Rail

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Best bet would be to find a similar forum in New York, I'm sure with their massive population there will be some enthusiasts amongst them.

My understanding of their system was that subway trains could be made to a suitable length and a driving car was placed at each end? Either that or they run in double sets of 4?


AR
 

LilLoaf

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I'm just as intersted in the NYC subway (MTA) as they call it over there. I don't think all cars have cabs at either end of the cars. Certainly the ones that work the shuttles will have them at either end. Its easier to couple them and uncouple them. For example one day the R62 / R62A stock may work on the Grand Central shuttle in 4 car formation. The next day it may work a 7 express train Times Sq - Queens in 8-10 formation.

Please note - from the outside it may look like some cars have cabs at either end when they infact don't. Also some ones that do might be locked out of use permantly like over on the C stock on the circle line on LUL.


hope that helps. Any more questions on NYC see this site.

http://www.nycsubway.org/

or

http://www.mta.info/


or ask me.
 

subway156

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As rolling stock has progressed over the years, there have been many combinations put together. With the newest models, I believe the sets are are in multiples of five. Many of the original subway division, formerly the Interborough Rapid Transit, now use 10 cars each, especially in the east side of Manhattan where the Second Avenue Subway is under construction. It has been an "open" project since 1929 but always short funded. It is expected to be completed in 2015. As for the Museum. It has alot to offer to anyone unfamiliar with it. I will post some pictures I have from there. It only costs about $5 US to get in. They also organize outings on restored equipment. Rather than me explaining any of the carriage power set-ups, Yank119 was correct in sending anyone there to that site. They know the whereabouts of and dates each and every car has been in and out of service.-----------------R142/142A are built as ABBBA stes. B units are powered w/o cabs. They can be assembles as 4,5,6,9 or 11 cars consists. Check out the site under the cars heading. The list all data on everything ever built within their system. MTA, Metroplitan Transit Authority. Also, look at the stock from pre-unification for all the old stuff!
 

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DJ_K666

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Yeah that was the site I was looking at. It`s not always clear in the pictures though. I wasn`t aware of the "other" subway system known as the P.A.T.H. which is run by the Port Authority and runs from the World Trade centre to places like Newark, New Jersey, Hoboken and 33rd Street and is a Tube line in a similar fashion to the London system. In fact, on one site i saw there`s a picture of the WTC station where a disused running tunnel is poking of of the wall... I believe there`s a section on it on the NYC site.

Here`s what I mean with the wall thing...

http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?27412

One day I`ll go to New York and I`ll go have a look at that museum. Looks quite fascinating...
 

renfespotter

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The MTA is a real fun ride. Some stations have through lines for routes not served by the station and the sight of non-stoppers flahing through between the girders is quitedramatic. Times Square is a good example. A few trips down line 1 will soon get you number crunching. My last visit was for the New Year in Dec 05/Jan 06. stock out of Times Square was R62 and R62As.
However much I love NYC it can not hol a candle to Chicago. Many a happy hour in the mornings watching the CTA trains on the EL elevated sections in The Loop and the METRAs in the morning rush hour at Lake St Tower.
 

LilLoaf

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I'm not sure which part is classed as Lexington Ave, i think he means on the 4,5,6 trains. Not sure which ones the express though. You can also take the A Express (the Far Rockerway or Leffeards Blvd service) from 125st Manhatten to 59th St Columbus circle and go non stop through stations like 72nd street. This is availble to download for BVE 2 from BVEstation.com where you will also find plenty of great MTA downloads.

Another fun ride is the 7 express from Times Sq to Flushing Main St.
 

TGVDUDE

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i recently been to NY and the MTA is soooooooooooo much fun, get on the wrong train? no problem, (i was in Brooklyn and Harlem by accident)lol but got back to manhatten in no time, when yur on an express train espeically up 8th Av its amazing, the LIRR is good too as for stock i think it was made up of 4 car sets put together (1 set having 2 cab end cars and 2 main ones) but the Blue Lines to the WTC have new cars which look and to ride in are amazing, go on the MTA it's awesome, even if yu get on one of the oldest sets!
 

poshbakerloo

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I'm not sure which part is classed as Lexington Ave, i think he means on the 4,5,6 trains. Not sure which ones the express though. You can also take the A Express (the Far Rockerway or Leffeards Blvd service) from 125st Manhatten to 59th St Columbus circle and go non stop through stations like 72nd street. This is availble to download for BVE 2 from BVEstation.com where you will also find plenty of great MTA downloads.

Another fun ride is the 7 express from Times Sq to Flushing Main St.

The Lexington Ave Line is the 4, 5 and 6 trains from 125th Street - Bowling Green...
 

subway156

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It's a true shame that the newer rolling stock on the Lex doesn't have any real railfan window. Watching those trains as they reach over 60 m.p.h. crusing through those tunnels is awesome. I did it back in the 60's when they were still using some real old stock and they were always capable of supplying a thrill. LIRR has some very smooth running units and they can move out too. The larger trains on the "A" are also smooth and fairly quiet and they are the next ones to go to the deep 6.
 

subway156

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Built by the now defunct Budd Co. in Philadelphia. The plant is now building Hyundai cars for SEPTA (Series 5 cars)
 

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Shinkansenfan

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I`ve just been looking at a website about the NYC subway system. One thing that seems to be unclear is this. Are all the cars on there driving/motor cars? They all seem to have a cab at each end and run in trains of around 8 - 10 cars. (so not really much longer than a London Underground train). Do they have any intermediate trailers a la Waterloo & City 1942 stock?
Just a question really. I might have to go have a holiday over there and investigate.

The New York Transit museum looks quite interesting too, just a load of restored cars just shunted into an old station and notice boards put by the doors.


I live in New York City, and used to work for NYCTA, so can answer your questions.

Yes, there are cab (driving) cars and trailers and these are most obvious on the latest model railcars, such as the R142, R143 and R160s. With these models, the cabs are full width across the front of the trains.

Because NYCTA persists in the archaic tradition (strong unions) of staffing with a conductor (guard) to open and close the doors on all main line services, the trainsets using the above model cars are arranged so that there are two cab cars located mid train for the conductor to operate from. Thus, an A Division (ex IRT) R142 trainset would be composed of an ABBBA + ABBBA configuration (where A = Cab Car, B = trailer). Generally speaking, current practice is to try and run each trainset as an intact unit to save wear and tear on the electric portion of the couplers and to save on staff time cutting and combining trains.

Trains are assigned to a specific barn (depot), and do not wander from one line to another on a daily basis as a prior poster suggested. From time to time, due to equipment retirements or the whims of management, cars may be reassigned from one depot to another.

Prior to the newer cars, the TA used to order cars configured in semi permanent married pair configurations, each with a cab at the out ends. Thus an A division train would consist of 5 x 2 married pairs. Most ex-IRT lines operate with 10 cars, but the Flushing Line (7 train) operates with 11 cars and the 3 Train with 9 cars.

Some cars such as the R62/62A were actually built as double ended units with a cab on both ends. This provided maximum flexibility in terms of train lengths, but each car also had that many more bits to maintain. During the late 1980's/early 90's, these cars were ganged up and linked permanently into predominantly 5 cars fixed consists, and the redundant equipment removed from the cabs no longer needed, thus creating an ABBBA configuration.

Alas, they did not remove the walls that surround the now empty cabs (corner cabs), and the A cars were converted from corner cabs to become full width cabs, so there has been a loss of customer standing space, and trainsets now haul empty telephone booth sized cabs (corner cabs) that could have been productively used for seats or standees. Boo!

The Transit Museum is worth a visit, but is not the same quality as the LT Museum. The upper level (mezzanine level) hosts various exhibits on rotation.
 

DJ_K666

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I live in New York City, and used to work for NYCTA, so can answer your questions.

Yes, there are cab (driving) cars and trailers and these are most obvious on the latest model railcars, such as the R142, R143 and R160s. With these models, the cabs are full width across the front of the trains.

Because NYCTA persists in the archaic tradition (strong unions) of staffing with a conductor (guard) to open and close the doors on all main line services, the trainsets using the above model cars are arranged so that there are two cab cars located mid train for the conductor to operate from. Thus, an A Division (ex IRT) R142 trainset would be composed of an ABBBA + ABBBA configuration (where A = Cab Car, B = trailer). Generally speaking, current practice is to try and run each trainset as an intact unit to save wear and tear on the electric portion of the couplers and to save on staff time cutting and combining trains.

Trains are assigned to a specific barn (depot), and do not wander from one line to another on a daily basis as a prior poster suggested. From time to time, due to equipment retirements or the whims of management, cars may be reassigned from one depot to another.

Prior to the newer cars, the TA used to order cars configured in semi permanent married pair configurations, each with a cab at the out ends. Thus an A division train would consist of 5 x 2 married pairs. Most ex-IRT lines operate with 10 cars, but the Flushing Line (7 train) operates with 11 cars and the 3 Train with 9 cars.

Some cars such as the R62/62A were actually built as double ended units with a cab on both ends. This provided maximum flexibility in terms of train lengths, but each car also had that many more bits to maintain. During the late 1980's/early 90's, these cars were ganged up and linked permanently into predominantly 5 cars fixed consists, and the redundant equipment removed from the cabs no longer needed, thus creating an ABBBA configuration.

Alas, they did not remove the walls that surround the now empty cabs (corner cabs), and the A cars were converted from corner cabs to become full width cabs, so there has been a loss of customer standing space, and trainsets now haul empty telephone booth sized cabs (corner cabs) that could have been productively used for seats or standees. Boo!

The Transit Museum is worth a visit, but is not the same quality as the LT Museum. The upper level (mezzanine level) hosts various exhibits on rotation.

Ah cheers Shikansenfan, that explains the whole thing. I`ll have to come over to NY at some point (cash permitting!) and have a ride around. Hopefully taking in the PATH as well... Not to mention the museum
 

Shinkansenfan

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Ah cheers Shikansenfan, that explains the whole thing. I`ll have to come over to NY at some point (cash permitting!) and have a ride around. Hopefully taking in the PATH as well... Not to mention the museum

Do visit. The strong is exchange rate is good for you, bad for me (although I'll be roaming the rails in England and Scotland in September).

PATH is currently in progress to replace their entire fleet of PA1, PA2, PA3, PA4 (relatively recent build) with a uniform fleet of new PA5 cars. Unlike the earlier cars, these new PA5 will no longer have the "railfan window" at the front end (and rear) of the train. The first sets of new trains have entered service.

Alas, the railfan window is quickly vanishing on the NYC subway system and commuter rail system as full width cabs progressively replace corner cab rolling stock.
 

Waddon

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If you're going on the NY Subway, be sure to get a southbound 6 train to Brooklyn Bridge/City Hall and 'forget' to get off when it terminates, and you will be taken round the old City Hall loop, through the disused City Hall station, and back up into Brooklyn Bridge station, facing the other way, which is very interesting. They don't tend to empty the trains like the London Underground does when they terminate, so you can get some interesting empty stock journeys just by forgetting to get off!

Other good places to visit are the south ferry loop on the 1 train - very old and bizarre with those metal plates that come out to fill the gap between the train and the platform and only half the train in the platform - I heard this station is going to close soon due to rebuilding (if it hasn't already) so catch it while you can!
 

Thewanderer

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Hi folks,

In just over a week i'm off to New York for a week. This will be my 3rd trip across the ocean but I haven't really explored the Sunway System much. Any advice on good photo spots / lines to travel on?

Snapper, nice pictures.

Cheers,
The Wanderer.
 

Waddon

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ive been on the New york subway it makes our tube look a bit small

It also runs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, whereas our tube seems at the moment only able to manage 18 hours a day, 5 days a week (only three out of ten lines operating normally this weekend!). It also has all stations staffed, air conditioning and a fare of around 2 dollars to go as far as you like on the network. What are we doing wrong?
 

Mojo

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It also runs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, whereas our tube seems at the moment only able to manage 18 hours a day, 5 days a week (only three out of ten lines operating normally this weekend!). It also has all stations staffed, air conditioning and a fare of around 2 dollars to go as far as you like on the network. What are we doing wrong?
On the other hand, service alterations are poorly advertised, stations are dirty and shabby, trains don't have padded seats, the fare payment system is out of date and tempremental, trains still have guards, the system is infested with rats, station staffing outside of token booths is poor (if at all existant), train information at stations is still quite poor and has only just been introduced.
 

starrymarkb

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It also runs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, whereas our tube seems at the moment only able to manage 18 hours a day, 5 days a week (only three out of ten lines operating normally this weekend!). It also has all stations staffed, air conditioning and a fare of around 2 dollars to go as far as you like on the network. What are we doing wrong?

They have 4 tracks on most routes, London only has 2. So for engineering work trains run on 2 tracks out of 4. IIRC most of NYC is cut and cover too compared to our single track bored tunnels
 

tripleseis

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Both systems have their good points and bad points. Stations on the NYC subway are quite shabby compared to London's brightly refurbished stations. Also London has next train information boards at most stations, whereas the Subway only seems to have them on the 7 and L lines. NY has more express services compared to London which only has them on the Met and Piccadilly lines.
 

Mojo

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I`m fairly sure there aren`t any expresses on the Piccadilly line. Could be wrong though.
Could perhaps be referring to the trains that avoid stations served by the District.
 
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