New v Old Eurostar

[mike57]

Just returned from a week in Paris and surrounding areas,

Traveled out on one of the new Siemens units, returned on one of the old units, Standard class both ways

The new units overall seem more roomy, are they built to the larger continental loading gauge? They are comfortable, light, and overall I thought they are a big improvement over the old units which to be honest are starting to look tired, however one minor criticism, the new units seem to have more vibration, its not severe, but they are not as smooth as the old units, two journeys, same route, 1 week apart, so I think it must be something in the setup.

Has anyone else noticed this?

 

[jon0844]

Can't say I noticed a vibration, but I would say that if you can get the refurbished 373, that's probably nicer than the 374. More cosy, but also vastly improved.

I only travelled on the 374 and refurbed 373 in standard. Every other time, bar my first trip in 1994 has been 'standard premier' but with the quality of standard now, and the reduced food/drink quality, I don't think I'd ever bother with paying to sit in first class again. I'd certainly never go business premier, as I value rocking up late to board over having time in a lounge.

 

[yorkie]

The new trains are poor. Terrible window alignment, ride quality not great, and look tacky. Legroom not good either. Is that the best they could come up with?!

 

[jon0844]

The new trains are poor. Terrible window alignment, ride quality not great, and look tacky. Legroom not good either. Is that the best they could come up with?!

They seemed to have the information screens set up so they could scroll custom messages, like a birthday greeting on ours, but I'm not sure how it was entered - as it looked like someone had to enter each character through some laborious method as it wasn't formatted very well. It also scrolled at such a slow pace that I thought we'd arrive in Paris before it finished!!

 

[Bungle965]

They seemed to have the information screens set up so they could scroll custom messages, like a birthday greeting on ours, but I'm not sure how it was entered - as it looked like someone had to enter each character through some laborious method as it wasn't formatted very well. It also scrolled at such a slow pace that I thought we'd arrive in Paris before it finished!!

A bit like the information screens on the outside of Voyagers and Pendolinos?
Sam

 

[jon0844]

A bit like the information screens on the outside of Voyagers and Pendolinos?
Sam

I'd have expected that the TM could enter messages using a normal keyboard on these (not regular trains). Or maybe s/he could and just wasn't very good at typing.

 

[crehld]

The new trains are poor. Terrible window alignment, ride quality not great, and look tacky. Legroom not good either. Is that the best they could come up with?!

To be fair the window alignment is equally rubbish in the 373s.

 

[jon0844]

To be fair the window alignment is equally rubbish in the 373s.

Do people look out windows anymore? The trains have Wi-Fi, which is pretty ropey for an outside Internet connection in a lot of places, but you can get the service to stream films/TV locally from the train (like Virgin's service here) which means most people be glued to their smartphone or tablet display throughout.

 

[Phil.]

Just returned from a week in Paris and surrounding areas,

Traveled out on one of the new Siemens units, returned on one of the old units, Standard class both ways

The new units overall seem more roomy, are they built to the larger continental loading gauge? They are comfortable, light, and overall I thought they are a big improvement over the old units which to be honest are starting to look tired, however one minor criticism, the new units seem to have more vibration, its not severe, but they are not as smooth as the old units, two journeys, same route, 1 week apart, so I think it must be something in the setup.

Has anyone else noticed this?

They are bigger as they are built to a bigger gauge than is allowed on Britain's Victorian designed system. There is really no such gauge as, "Continental gauge" but continental structure and loading gauges are more generous than the one's found here.

 

[317666]

I was very disappointed with the interior on the refurbished 373 and 374s - legroom is poor and the window alignment is abysmal. They should've just stuck with the ICE interior, which is fantastic, but using their own colours.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The new trains are poor. Terrible window alignment, ride quality not great, and look tacky. Legroom not good either. Is that the best they could come up with?!

Which is interesting given how good DB's ICEs are, which are basically the same train. Trust penny-pinching E* to ruin the interior

 

[jon0844]

I was very disappointed with the interior on the refurbished 373 and 374s - legroom is poor and the window alignment is abysmal. They should've just stuck with the ICE interior, which is fantastic, but using their own colours.

I thought the latest ICE trains were quite bland, and nowhere near as cosy as the older refurbished ones.

Modern trains are all too plain, with leather seats being used to give a feeling of quality. I guess it's not far off what many modern cars are like.

 

[Mojo]

To be fair the window alignment is equally rubbish in the 373s.

ls it? l walked along about 5 or 6 coaches on the new trains and couldn't find a single bay that lined up properly. Meanwhile on the 373 on my return journey, almost every one lined up, and those that didn't were out by just a few centimetres.

 

[jon0844]

I don't think many people are bothered these days and if you're told of restricted views when booking, that's not a problem as I'd be happy to take a restricted view (and still know that I can see out of other windows, as nobody has NO view at all).

 

[507021]

I like both, I personally preferred the 374 but I thought the 373 was still very good.

 

[leytongabriel]

YES! Seems to me they have quietly downgraded 'Standard' to 'Economy' and hope that nobody will notice too much the generally grim plasticky-ness, ultra-thin armrests, rattling doors to the bar areas with what looks like a bath shower screen transfer design, cheapo seats with a minimum of padding and a loss of those nice headrests and even worse, the loss of individual light control above seats. Watch for people fumbling around to find a jumper or putting coats and hats on too. Perhaps the finest feature are the bars designed to put anyone off hanging around for longer than it takes to stir your coffee, with that special shelf that doesn't actually meet the wall so any drinks not held onto grimly are likely to fall off backwards into the gap. Sensible. And no tip-up seats in the vestibules so where can people holding prolonged conversations or howling infants actually go to? But it's fine as there's a bit of a slide foward and slouch feature on the seats. 'Reclining' apparently!

So as an industry outsider is there any way passengers can check to see which trains are run with refurbished old stock?

 

[jon0844]

Wow, while I agree that modern trains (and refreshes) are more simplistic and perhaps a bit more 'clinical' in appearance, I can't say I had that feeling whatsoever on my trips on a 374 and refreshed 373.

 

[crehld]

Do people look out windows anymore? The trains have Wi-Fi, which is pretty ropey for an outside Internet connection in a lot of places, but you can get the service to stream films/TV locally from the train (like Virgin's service here) which means most people be glued to their smartphone or tablet display throughout.

Can't speak for everyone but I personally look out of the window.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

ls it? l walked along about 5 or 6 coaches on the new trains and couldn't find a single bay that lined up properly. Meanwhile on the 373 on my return journey, almost every one lined up, and those that didn't were out by just a few centimetres.

Yes it can be bad - I'd say 1 in 4 or 5 rows of seats don't get a decent view. Indeed, I really enjoyed my view of a dark grey panel on an old 373 on the way to Brussels this morning
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As for what I think more generally... I haven't been on a 374 yet so can't comment. But personally, the refurbished 373s are far superior to the old ones on a number of levels. I find the seats to be more comfortable. Because they're not so large and bulky there seems to be slightly more leg room (although this is my perception, I haven't got a tape measure out). The interior feels much more spacious (amazing what a paint job will do). And provision of wifi and 1 plug socket per seat is nice.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wow, while I agree that modern trains (and refreshes) are more simplistic and perhaps a bit more 'clinical' in appearance, I can't say I had that feeling whatsoever on my trips on a 374 and refreshed 373.

Agreed.

 

[crehld]

Following this evening's journey I have now experienced all of Eurostar's rolling stock offer. So in order of preference it's a tossup between a refurbished 373 and a new 374, with the old 373 far in the distance.

The new interiors are far superior to the old for a number of reasons.

Firstly lets deal with window alignment. In all three it isn't perfect and there is the odd row on all three where you spend your journey staring at the wall. But claims the older 373 has better windows alignment are simply fiction; there's no difference and given c**p window alignment is the norm nowadays I really don't see any point in crticizing Eurostar for it.

I wouldn't say the new colour scheme is overly clinical at all - in fact the light colour means the refurbished 373 feels incredibly more spacious than the drab, dark, dingy and depressing original version. Indeed, the refurbished version feels much more , despite the fact the dimensions remain the same and the seats have higher backs

Provision of WiFi and entertainment in the 374s and the refurbished 373s is excellent.

The unrefurbished 373s were really starting to smell wiffy too.

I notice no difference in leg room whatsoever. In fact if you're in a bay of four you seem to have more leg room with the new interior. I also find the more up-right seat position much more comfortable than the overly angled seats in the old 373s. That said I quite like ironing board seats so I realize I'm not the majority here. Fortunately for those that disagree you can recline the new seats.

I have two criticisms of the 374s, however: 1) the automatic doors (or at least their sensors) at the end of carriages are rubbish; and 2) the fold down tables have no lip, which meant when we went round a sharpish corner just before Lille, the centrifugal force sent my glass of water flying off the table and into the lap of the lady who was seated across the aisle. A 'lip' around the table probably would have limited the damage to the aisle.

 

[Clansman]

Thoroughly disappointed with the new interior and train. As said terrible window alignment, seats are smaller along with the legroom. Looks like Eurostar is following the UK trend of ever declining comfort. I loved the Class 373 first class seats in particular which were nice and spaced out particularly between seats, now a first class seat is the equivalent to having standard class seats but in 2-1 formation, deceiving us with the size by allowing 2 armrests between 2 seats instead of the usual 1 in standard (Exaggerative opinion). Not to mention the reduced size in the buffet car.

As said on previous threads, I really don't understand why TOCs don't maximise comfort where perfectly possible and to maximise passenger experience (ie window alignment). The financial impact wouldn't be hindered in the slightest I'd of imagined.

In my opinion this is really a disappointing effort from Eurostar by ruining passenger experience from what looks like a very smart intercontinental high-speed train.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

a very smart intercontinental high-speed train.

So, do ES's ambitions now run to Asia? North America? Perhaps all the way to China? Definitely need to fix up the catering then!

 

[Clansman]

So, do ES's ambitions now run to Asia? North America? Perhaps all the way to China? Definitely need to fix up the catering then!

Damn auto correct. Meant to say International

Although with the whole Brexit rubbish I may not necessarily be wrong.

(I know Europe and the European Union are 2 different things, so please don't murder me for trying to spark some humour)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I've just had my first two 374s and I would say the unrefurbished 373s are by far much more comfortable. The interior of the 374 is also very visually cluttered - the staggered seating also makes it more awkward to get in and out of the seats compared to the parallel and symmetrical layout in the 373s.

Ride quality - yes as others have said the 374 is a bit less smooth, but it's certainly not rough. There isn't really a lot of difference between the two types in this respect.

The 374 certainly accelerates much better than the 373.

On the 374, is there a VCB directly underneath seat 7/38 or do I need to report one unit for having some kind of noisy defect?!

The 374 is rather cold inside and especially when the brakes are applied there is a huge blast of freezing air around the legs.

Windows in the 374 appear to have the Voyager style coating... although I could get the GPS signal, it was more difficult to hold onto it than on the 373.

 

[newmilton]

I'm afraid my experience of the new units today was not good. First of all we were told our train had a fault (1024 STP-PAR) and a replacement would be found. Having left 40' late we than had a sudden application of the brakes about 20' out of Paris and came to a complete standstill for another 20' because of a fault on our train, finally crawling into GduN 75' late. Apart from that they were fine, though they do seem to rock from side to side more.

 

[johnnychips]

I don't really want to open a new thread, so I wonder if anyone can help me with this?

I booked London to Brussels on the 1934 on Fri 27th January, returning on the 1856 on Sun 28th January. When I looked at the seat options (I will be travelling with two companions), it seemed on the plan that there were very few table seats (and these were all taken), but a lot of airline seats, which makes me suspect it might be a new train.

However, there were seats seemingly opposite each other, without a table symbol, which I booked. Perplexingly, these could 'not guarantee the direction of travel', whilst others in the carriage certainly could.

If anybody could elucidate I would be delighted, especially if there is some sort of barrier or bulkhead between opposite seats, explaining the lack of table.

The seats I have booked are 18/28 outbound and 5/41 back if that is any help.

Thanks, John

 

[Peter Mugridge]

At the moment, all Bruxelles services are still 100% solid 373s.

18 cars is definitely a 373...


5/41 towards London is a forward facing table seat, window, right hand side.

18/28 towards Bruxelles is the same.

Seating plan: https://www.b-europe.com/~/media/Fi...rSeatingPlan/eurostar_seating_plan.ashx?la=en

 

[johnnychips]

Thanks Peter!

 

[45669]

Well I for one like to look out of train windows, but I so often get the seat next to the grey plastic panel - despite the ticket saying that it's a window seat! My preference is for a 'window' to be made of glass so that it can be seen through.

What really rubs salt in the wound is seeing everybody sitting by a proper glass window spending the whole journey with their noses buried in books and magazines. Or nowadays, laptops, mobile phones or those tablety things! It they were sitting by a blank plastic panel it wouldn't matter to them.

On one occasion I switched to a vacant, unreserved, seat by a nice big window and had a much pleasanter journey.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Well I for one like to look out of train windows, but I so often get the seat next to the grey plastic panel - despite the ticket saying that it's a window seat! My preference is for a 'window' to be made of glass so that it can be seen through.

What really rubs salt in the wound is seeing everybody sitting by a proper glass window spending the whole journey with their noses buried in books and magazines. Or nowadays, laptops, mobile phones or those tablety things! It they were sitting by a blank plastic panel it wouldn't matter to them.

On one occasion I switched to a vacant, unreserved, seat by a nice big window and had a much pleasanter journey.

In a 373, try seat 74 or similar in the bulk of the standard class carriages./

In a 374 try seat 38 or 61 ditto.

 

[45669]

In a 373, try seat 74 or similar in the bulk of the standard class carriages./

In a 374 try seat 38 or 61 ditto.

I wasn't only referring to Eurostars. Thalyses, ICEs, they're all the same. As are many trains in this country. I don't think the computer that allocates the seats likes me!