New tube map?

[whoosh]

To me, the current tube map looks cluttered, and rather untidy. Is the 'Harry Beck' style, undoubtedly a design classic, being clung on to for sentimental reasons? Is it flogging a dead horse now? Are there better maps from people outside TfL which convey things more clearly?

If a new map was created, what would you have on it? Debate has raged on another thread over the Northern City Line being a valid contender...

 

[A S Leib]

I think there should be an inner London and a Greater London (plus slightly outside, e.g. Amersham, Shenfield, maybe as far as Gatwick and Luton) map, both showing all rail services. It might be slightly early now, but once GTR's renationalised, maybe recolouring services based on terminals would help to make the tube and rail map more comprehensible.

 

[Zomboid]

I think the problem stems from there being so much stuff to show these days. It'll always look a bit busy and cluttered because that's an accurate representation of reality.

 

[frankmoh]

They need to have some more line variations. Why the Tram and Overground get the same dual line (line) is beyond me.

They should also add some more National Rail where it connects other parts of the Tube map without TfL. Think the Northern City Line or Southeastern from Lewisham to London Bridge-Waterloo East-Charing Cross. Preferably with the old white line for "National Rail".

 

[NCT]

The Tube map is just a bit of free merch these days. For practical purposes people use the myriad of apps.

 

[YorksLad12]

The Diagram is no longer a map of just the Underground; it’s halfway between Beck’s design and the London Connections one. The cable car being a good example of how daft it’s become.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

They need to have some more line variations. Why the Tram and Overground get the same dual line (line) is beyond me.

They should also add some more National Rail where it connects other parts of the Tube map without TfL. Think the Northern City Line or Southeastern from Lewisham to London Bridge-Waterloo East-Charing Cross. Preferably with the old white line for "National Rail".

Having more line variations and showing more are (close to?) contradictory: we already have dark blue for Piccadilly and pale blue for Victoria, red/pink for Central/H&C, grey/black for Jubilee/Northern. So what other colours should be used, or what patterns in the line?

It's perhaps worth taking the Beck map back to basics - not in terms of keeping the Circle Line as a rectangle or bottle, but in terms of (in general) spacing stations evenly on the map and showing lines as (generally) straight. Start by identifying the existing interchanges with multiple lines, and then start drawing in the lines between them.

 

[Zomboid]

For that you've probably got to decide which line goes on first. Central or Crossrail, probably?

If I had 3 days and infinite crayons that might be fun. But I don't.

 

[bananas]

I do think it's clearly not had enough time spent on it the last few years. The graphic designers are probably trying their best but whoever's in charge at TfL needs to understand how valuable it is as a piece of branding.

Some stations (e.g. Paddington, Liverpool Street / Moorgate) are complicated enough that they can never really look that good. But Bond Street is an abomination - clearly the task was issued: "show the walking connection from the Elizabeth line to Oxford Circus", and not more than 15 minutes were spent on it.

The central line at Mile End looks ridiculous. Thameslink needn't be so wobbly. Finsbury Park, Euston, Highbury & Islington, Hackney Central, Gospel Oak, Westminster, all could be tidier I'm sure, and probably used to be. What's up with the zone 1-2 boundary between Imperial Wharf, Clapham Junction and Vauxhall? The wheelchair soup in East London is a bit overwhelming - couldn't DLR and Tramlink have a different marker to show they're 100% step-free?

The London's Rail and Tube Services map has many of these issues solved, but plenty of its own. Why did they bend the South West Main Line? And the West Anglia Main Line? And the Victoria line between Tottenham Hale and Blackhorse Road? What's happened between East Putney and Wimbledon? West Croydon? Clock House / Beckenham Road / Kent House? Many connecting stations have an unnecessary number of blobs - look at the Victoria line in the Lea valley, and Highbury & Islington, Richmond, Upminster.

 

[A S Leib]

Many connecting stations have an unnecessary number of blobs - look at the Victoria line in the Lea valley, and Highbury & Islington, Richmond, Upminster.

I think that's partly because of cases where some lines have step-free access and others don't; maybe making finding the presence of the more detailed accessibility tube map more well-known instead would help?

 

[PTR 444]

I would say yes, the Tube Map certainly does need a redesign, and ideally a separate Central London and Outer London map too.

For the Central map, ideally show all of Zone 1 and Zone 2, as well as the combined Zone 2/3 which covers the Jubilee Line/DLR between Canning Town and Stratford. Design should be similar to the Tube Map, but with straightening out of lines as much as possible. Central Line should be a straight horizontal line, with the Circle Line symmetrical on both sides (even if not a perfect circle/rectangle).

For the outer map, show all National Rail lines within the proposed Project Oval area, and DLR/Tube lines that extend out further than Zone 2. Only show the most important stations within Zone 1 and 2, as is the case with Greater London stations on the London & South East rail map. Design should emphasise the Elizabeth Line as a straight horizontal line, Thameslink as a straight vertical line, and the Mildmay/Windrush Line circle as a perfect circle or octagon.

Tramlink should be excluded from the maps as it is closer to a bus service than a railway. Same for the Cable Car as it doesn’t really serve a public transport function.

 

[aron2smith]

I would say yes, the Tube Map certainly does need a redesign, and ideally a separate Central London and Outer London map too.

For the Central map, ideally show all of Zone 1 and Zone 2, as well as the combined Zone 2/3 which covers the Jubilee Line/DLR between Canning Town and Stratford. Design should be similar to the Tube Map, but with straightening out of lines as much as possible. Central Line should be a straight horizontal line, with the Circle Line symmetrical on both sides (even if not a perfect circle/rectangle).

For the outer map, show all National Rail lines within the proposed Project Oval area, and DLR/Tube lines that extend out further than Zone 2. Only show the most important stations within Zone 1 and 2, as is the case with Greater London stations on the London & South East rail map. Design should emphasise the Elizabeth Line as a straight horizontal line, Thameslink as a straight vertical line, and the Mildmay/Windrush Line circle as a perfect circle or octagon.

Tramlink should be excluded from the maps as it is closer to a bus service than a railway. Same for the Cable Car as it doesn’t really serve a public transport function.

I agree with this apart from the Tramlink being excluded. It would probably be too much but would like Superloop on the outer map somehow.

Also anything that gets them printing the London and South East again, that was a lot more useful than the tube map.

If TFL keeps expanding via rail devolution, the traditional tube map will end up redundant, especially if a bigger version isn't made available. Not like the tube will expand in any major way in the future, all the expansion will be on above ground lines.

 

[PTR 444]

I agree with this apart from the Tramlink being excluded. It would probably be too much but would like Superloop on the outer map somehow.

In my opinion, Tramlink is in the same league as Superloop, so any map should show both or none. An outer map showing both would likely become too cluttered in my opinion, especially as it would also show almost everything that currently appears on the London Tube & Rail Services map.

 

[frankmoh]

In my opinion, Tramlink is in the same league as Superloop, so any map should show both or none. An outer map showing both would likely become too cluttered in my opinion, especially as it would also show almost everything that currently appears on the London Tube & Rail Services map.

I think Tramlink is fine on the Rail & Tube map given how it is a light railway and connects with 10 rail and Tube stations. On the current Tube map that number drops down to 5 which is still fine.

On the other hand, adding a bus service to a railway map is just bad design, no matter how many train stations the Superloop goes past.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

adding a bus service to a railway map is just bad design, no matter how many train stations the Superloop goes past.

Isn't there an argument that what matters to the passenger is the speed and number of stops on a journey? How the passenger saloon is attached to the ground (steel wheel on rail Vs tyre on tarmac) should surely not be the decisive issue.

I'll admit to not being familiar with Superloop. But if it stops every mile or so like a metro rather than every 400 yards or thereabouts like a bus, then surely it makes sense to include it on a map with the other metro services?

 

[frankmoh]

Isn't there an argument that what matters to the passenger is the speed and number of stops on a journey? How the passenger saloon is attached to the ground (steel wheel on rail Vs tyre on tarmac) should surely not be the decisive issue.

I'll admit to not being familiar with Superloop. But if it stops every mile or so like a metro rather than every 400 yards or thereabouts like a bus, then surely it makes sense to include it on a map with the other metro services?

The Tube Map shows off various forms of railways (also the cable car but that should go). The tram counts as one too. Perhaps if the Superloop used a guided busway it might be a different story.

 

[3141]

The Tube map is just a bit of free merch these days. For practical purposes people use the myriad of apps.

If I was a visitor to London and wanting to get from A to B, an app would probably be the most useful. But if I was coming to live in London things would be different. An app might be most useful to start with, for a journey from home to work. But I'd soon learn that one. I'd want to know more about the Underground network, to find out what alternative routes I might take, whether a different home somewhere else would provide a convenient journey to work. Once I'd travelled on the Elizabeth Line I might want to see if I could somehow incorporate it into my regular journey on some occasions. For all these things a map would be required. I'd want to feel that I knew the network and wasn't going to have to look something up every time I travelled somewhere different, or was thinking of doing so. In the same way that I'd want a street map to enable me to grasp the layout of London and how different areas related to one another.

The problem with the Underground map is that it has gradually become more complex as new things have been added to it over the years. There've been new lines, fare zones, accessibility information, the Overground network, out-of-station interchanges, etc. All this is interesting to enthusiasts and to some London residents. It becomes pretty daunting to someone who just wants to plan a journey. I should think it's now impossible to design an up-to-date version without some major compromises. Before any new design is attempted there would need to be agreement about the principal objectives. Then various drafts could be constructed to achieve those objectives and evaluate how acceptable or otherwise the compromises might be.

 

[etr221]

The problem with the Underground map is that it has gradually become more complex as new things have been added to it over the years. There've been new lines, fare zones, accessibility information, the Overground network, out-of-station interchanges, etc. All this is interesting to enthusiasts and to some London residents. It becomes pretty daunting to someone who just wants to plan a journey. I should think it's now impossible to design an up-to-date version without some major compromises. Before any new design is attempted there would need to be agreement about the principal objectives. Then various drafts could be constructed to achieve those objectives and evaluate how acceptable or otherwise the compromises might be.

Yes, the way all sort of things have been added to the Tube (Underground) map is what has spoilt it, especially as most peoples is exposure to it is in the small folded version, which has ended with far to much being squeezed on to it, resulting in rather a mess; while at the same time not everything, so its incomplete...

So for the Tube, a complete redesign, with just the Tube - the Overground, DLR, Tramlink all have their own maps, the Tube should be the same.

And to go with it, an overall London 'rail map', with all the rail services, both TfL (EL, Tube, Overground, DLR, Tramlink) and NR (GBR to be) - perhaps in three versions, for 'central London' (to cover Zones 1-3?), 'Greater London' (Zones 1-6, perhaps a bit more - but not much!), and a 'London and Hinterland' (at least the former LT area, probably out to cover all the 'Project Oval' territory). And with the development'Bakerloop', 'Superloop', and similar express bus services, there is perhaps a case for carefully considering whether these should be included ... I'm rather in two minds on this. But alongside the 'Rail' map, there is a need for a 'Bus' map (which should also show rail lines, if only in outline).

 

[Metrider]

I tried printing a tube map to stick on the notice board in my kitchen. I found it was pretty much impossible to find a version that fit on a side of A4 while still having text that was legible!