New to split ticketing - can anyone help please?

[debz65]

I've been working on trying to split ticket a train fare for my to travel from Milton Keynes MKC to Torquay all afternoon, and am struggling to make it work....It seems the route through Birmingham is with less connections and a bit faster which I wold prefer.

Are there any experts out there that would love to help a wailing lass out and give me a hand please???? I'd really appreciate it, I'm trying to get to Torquay to visit my sick friend.

I would be leaving MKC for Torquay on 17 December anytime but can't get there too late in the evening and return on Wednesday 22 December leaving TOR anytime after 10am, again not getting to MKC too late in the evening.

I've got the split routes off a website....it's just getting the fares and making sure it's on the right route... The normal fare is return at 81.60, and I can't manage ....cheers anyone!!!!
MKC - BHM
BHM - CNM
CNM - BPW
BPW - TAU
TAU - TOR

 

[Striker]

I've got the split routes off a website....

Which website?

 

[KeithP]

OP, didn't you like the help you got on MSE?

 

[mathmo]

There is no guarantee you will save money by splitting. However, here I think you can buy an Off-Peak Return Milton Keynes - Cheltenham for £35.70 and an Off-Peak Return Cheltenham - Torquay for £39.70, for a total of £75.40, saving £6.20 and the only restriction being your train must stop at Cheltenham. There is no foolproof method to finding the best (if any) split though.

 

[Rhydgaled]

When you have 1 advance ticket for your journey and you miss a connection you can catch a following service can't you? However, I wonder if you split the ticket, unless only the 1st portion is an advance, would you loose that protection?

 

[Greenback]

That particular can of worms has been discussed to death on more than one occasion! In this case I doubt that acombination of Advance tickets would save any money given the dates of travel are not far away, and that very cheap tickets of these types are quite hard to get on XC services in the first place.

This may be one of those journeys where the cost can't be brought down a great deal by splitting.

 

[ainsworth74]

However, I wonder if you split the ticket, unless only the 1st portion is an advance, would you loose that protection?

As Greenback said, can of worms.

It depends on how you interpret the Conditions of Carriage and the Conditions of an Advance ticket. One side says splitting advances loses you no protections the other says yes it does. And seeing as we have some pretty knowledgeable people when it comes to ticketing on this site and they can't agree I'm not sure you will get an answer affirmative either way!

 

[yorkie]

When you have 1 advance ticket for your journey and you miss a connection you can catch a following service can't you? However, I wonder if you split the ticket, unless only the 1st portion is an advance, would you loose that protection?

There is no evidence that should the case, in my opinion. The rules say you may take later trains "to complete your journey".

This has been done to death on this forum but as plenty has been said about it before, I recommend doing a search (the hyperlinks that follow are a result of a quick search I have done just now; there are many more examples of this being discussed). I suggest in particular reading this (which I totally agree with), and my experiences (mentioned here among other places) are in accordance with what I expect to happen. A word of warning some rail staff will have their own opinion that is in no way based on what the rules say, they then state it as fact (example) so be prepared to encounter this. But just because you are on one ticket does not mean that rail staff will get you to your destination without a fight, as this example demonstrates. If they are going to make excuses, then it can be about anything, the main thing is to be aware of the rules and your rights.

I helped someone who was wrongly issued an Unpaid Fare Notice (note: never pay up front in such a circumstance; it's much harder to get the money back than if they have to chase you) for being on a combination of Advance tickets for one journey, and getting a later train on the second ticket, due to an earlier delay when the guard did not correctly adhere to the rules. Not only was the UPFN quashed but the guard was given suitable advice by the company concerned. I am also armed with an excellent quote from someone about as high up as you can get, that is sufficient to get someone out of that situation.

Of course, you must allow sufficient interchange time between trains. I would strongly advising plenty more than the absolute minimum, although on a contractual point of view the absolute minimum should be fine, but some of the minimum interchange times are not clear. The more time you allow, the more likely staff will deem it reasonable, and if staff deem something reasonable then the issue of whether you are entitled to it may not arise, this can avoid potential arguments, disputes and stress.

I've never had a problem, out of hundreds of journeys and I very rarely buy one ticket from origin to destination, instead I either buy further (and finish short) or a rover/ranger, or a combination of tickets.

 

[MikeWh]

OP, didn't you like the help you got on MSE?

Ouch!

I'd like to think that this site might give better advice on rail ticketing matters.

You don't mention a railcard so I'm guessing that you aren't under 26 or over 60. If you are, and can see yourself using trains again within the next 12 months, then buying one might be worthwhile over time.

As has been suggested, sticking to flexible off-peak tickets is probably your best bet because you just aren't going to get cheap advance tickets for the week before Christmas this close to the travel date. There are a couple of experts on here who might know a magic off-the-wall option and I'm sure they'll post if they can.

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

 

[yorkie]

And seeing as we have some pretty knowledgeable people when it comes to ticketing on this site and they can't agree I'm not sure you will get an answer affirmative either way!

I think that the leading experts agree that you can combine one ticket for one journey and that in the event of delays you are covered for the journey. Yes, others do not agree, generally rail staff who, fortunately, are not in a position to actually deny people travel (ie, drivers/ticket office staff) and I am not aware of any guards on here who have stated that they would charge anyone for a delay on the first ticket.

Passenger Focus get very few incidents of people being charged under these circumstances and in almost all cases they are able to get the charge quashed. (This info is based on someone obtaining data from a couple of years ago but I doubt this has changed). How many instances have there been of people posting here asking for advice because they were charged for a train being delayed? I can only think of one, and the guard has been advised not to do it again and the UPFN was cancelled.

Yes, we get many posts by people who have concerns, and for that reason alone, clarification should be issued by ATOC, however ATOC refuse to do that. I have a suitable quote from ATOC that can get issued to any TOC who issues a UPFN to someone in these circumstances. Only had to use it once.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think that the leading experts agree that you can combine one ticket for one journey and that in the event of delays you are covered for the journey.

Fair enough then! I really should learn to stop posting on threads about the intricacies of ticketing because I am most certainly not an expert

It would be nice to see clarification from the ATOC but that might require acting in the interests of the passenger :roll:

 

[yorkie]

Ouch!

I'd like to think that this site might give better advice on rail ticketing matters.

Indeed. Yes, there are some good people on MSE, but there are too many people who do not have a clue about railway ticketing who feel the need to post constant gibber, making up rules as they go along, to boost their post count! Here's some examples but fortunately the worst of them "sassy one" has now given up after some earlier gibberish and slander. It's a great site, but there needs to be more people to tell the acknowledgeable people to stop making things up if people are to be able to rely on the advice given there. At least here, when someone makes something up, there are plenty of people to put them right! OK, we all make mistakes, but making things up that someone is a criminal etc when they are in the right, that's just wrong.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've been working on trying to split ticket a train fare for my to travel from Milton Keynes MKC to Torquay all afternoon, and am struggling to make it work....It seems the route through Birmingham is with less connections and a bit faster which I wold prefer.

Are there any experts out there that would love to help a wailing lass out and give me a hand please???? I'd really appreciate it, I'm trying to get to Torquay to visit my sick friend.

I would be leaving MKC for Torquay on 17 December anytime but can't get there too late in the evening and return on Wednesday 22 December leaving TOR anytime after 10am, again not getting to MKC too late in the evening.

I've got the split routes off a website....it's just getting the fares and making sure it's on the right route... The normal fare is return at 81.60, and I can't manage ....cheers anyone!!!!
MKC - BHM
BHM - CNM
CNM - BPW
BPW - TAU
TAU - TOR

The £81.60 fare is a Super Off Peak, valid via London, on any train from MKC to London to connect with the 1106 from Paddington to Taunton.

Going via London is at least two changes of trains, you can change at Harrow and at Paddington, or at Euston and Paddington (using London Underground, which is included). A further change may be required at somewhere like Exeter or Newton Abbot (equally, a change at Exeter or Newton Abbot may be required if coming from Birmingham).

It is unclear from the restriction text what restriction, if any, applies via Birmingham.

There is an £86.80 Off Peak Return that is only valid via Gloucester and valid at any time from 0500. This seems a bizarre routeing, as Gloucester is out of the way on a branch line off the main line (it's a bit like there being a London to Edinburgh ticket routed via Selby!).

So, £81.60 is the fare to beat. But it won't be easy. The fare from London is £68.70 so you are only being asked to pay £12.90 extra for MKC - London including LU. The fare from Birmingham is even worse, at £73.40, meaning you are getting MKC - BHM for a mere £8.20 extra.

If you split further, e.g. at Cheltenham, Bristol etc then you will have more restrictions to be careful of, although if you are leaving after 10am you won't have any problems so that may not be an issue.

I think mathmo's suggestion will be hard to beat. You can break it down further e.g. MKC - BHM + BHM - CNM but it only saves money if you get the London Midland ticket between BHM & CNM, which severely restricts the trains you can get and means a slower journey.

 

[bb21]

OK. My best efforts are these, after a quick fiddle with Avantix Traveller.

Target:
Milton Keynes Central (MKC) - Torquay (TQY) Route +Any Permitted
Super Off-Peak Return £81.60.

Option 1: Split at Salisbury (SAL)
Total: £77.00

MKC - SAL Route Kensington Olympia
Off-Peak Return £40.30

SAL - TQY Route Any Permitted
Off-Peak Return £36.70

This route restricts you to using London Overground between Watford Junction and Clapham Junction and does not permit travelling into central London termini such as Euston or Waterloo. From Clapham Junction I believe that all South West Trains service towards Exeter St Davids will call at Salisbury so not adding on too much inconvenience here. However you cannot use Great Western services via Westbury and Taunton.

Option 2: Split at Southampton Central (SOU)
Total: £57.70

2 x Southern Daysave (£10.00 each) £20.00

SOU - TQY Route Salisbury
Off-Peak Return £37.70

I do not have time to check whether this combination is feasible as you have to travel on Southern services between Milton Keynes Central and Southampton Central via East Croydon, Gatwick Airport and Barnham. It will be a very long and arduous journey though. From Southampton Central you can then go to Salisbury and carry on as in Option 1. It would appear, according to the Routeing Guide that travel is permitted also in the following permutations between Southampton and Torquay (Exeter Routeing Point): via Basingstoke and Salisbury; via Salisbury and Westbury; via Salisbury, Westbury, Bath and Bristol to name a few. It would appear that the only forbidden route on this ticket is via Reading. Unfortunately I'm rather tied up for now to be able to check in details as to the timing of your journeys and whether such routeing as detailed above are legit (barring negative easements), but I'm sure that there will be some knowledgeable people along in a short while should my suggestions be inaccurate.

The Daysave ticket must be bought 7 days in advance from Southern website so if you want to travel on the 17th and decide to take this option, I would advise you to start immediately and plan your journeys very carefully.

Good luck.

Correction:
In option 1 it would appear that travelling via Westbury is a permitted route between Salisbury and Exeter (Torquay).

 

[d1015fan]

if you know when your going in advance can you not get an off peak ticket from MKC to london be it virgin, LM or southern underground to waterloo and use megatrain to exeter and then fgw to paignton from st davids. I know it is possible to do that cheaply

 

[Paul Kelly]

For the Birmingham route, there are some advance fares available for £5 each between Milton Keynes Central and Birmingham New Street on the dates given, which would bring the cost of that leg of the journey down to £10. The times are quite suitable, e.g. there is a £5 fare for dep MKC 09:49 arr BHM 11:17.

Then Birmingham New Street to Cheltenham Spa is £19.40 for an off-peak return, plus the £39.70 for Cheltenham Spa to Torquay already mentioned gives a total of £69.10.

 

[LexyBoy]

If the OP has or would find a use for a Network Railcard, another option would be:

MKC - Exeter via Salisbury £54.90 Return
Exeter - TQY £9.80 Return

Not too many changes (direct tube Euston-Waterloo, then just Exeter), still flexible, and total £64.90.

Edit: Slightly better is:

MKC - Clapham Junction route Not London £13.20 Return (direct Southern Service)
Clapham Junction - Exeter £38.10 Return
Exeter-Torquay £9.80 Return
Total £61.10, 2 changes and avoids the Tube.

Of course this doesn't include the cost of the Railcard (£25) But if you ever travel e.g. down to London or elsewhere in the South East it will soon pay for itself.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is an £86.80 Off Peak Return that is only valid via Gloucester and valid at any time from 0500. This seems a bizarre routeing, as Gloucester is out of the way on a branch line off the main line (it's a bit like there being a London to Edinburgh ticket routed via Selby!).

Who is the fare set by? If it's XC then presumably it used to be the cheaper non-London option (though 'via Birmingham' would seem more obvious). If FGW then very bizarre indeed; I wouldn't have thought it would even be a valid route from PAD to TQY!