New Tickets in NFM05

[First class]

Just been flicking through NFM05 with random journeys and discovered that Virgin Trains have now got some 'Virgin Trains Only' tickets on a number of short journeys.

However, I'm sure the way they are discounted is breaching several rules.

For instance Liverpool-Runcorn Virgin Only:


SDS - ANYTIME DAY S
00043 - VIRGIN TRNSONLY
Non-standard discounts apply
1 Adult @£ 3.00 = £ 3.00
__________
£ 3.00

Standard Class Single
From : 0435 LIVERPOOL STNS

This arrangement grants TOCNE employees, upon completion of one
month’s service (6 months for Southeastern and First ScotRail staff),
privilege rate travel facilities (75% discount of the full public fare) for
themselves, their partner and dependent children on the rail services of all
TOCs (excluding ScotRail's Strathclyde PTE services). The means for
obtaining privilege rate travel is a TOC Privilege Card.

Now Virgin aren't allowing a PRIV discount to be obtained against one of these new Anytime tickets- every other discount from Interail to YP is valid except Staff Travel Cards. Surely if ATOC say you are eligible for a 75% discount of Anytime Tickets - Virgin can't restrict this?

The cost between the Any Permitted and VT Only is minimal, however, it sets a dangerous precedent for PRIV tickets at a time that TOCs are starting to do their own (sometimes much cheaper) tickets... the PRIV discount will become even more worthless.

Also noticed that Southeastern staff are now made to do 6months service before they get a TOC Card... wonder why that changed...

 

[ChrisTheRef]

Don't know if anybody else has this problem, but try Manchester Piccadilly to Warrington Central...

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Don't know if anybody else has this problem, but try Manchester Piccadilly to Warrington Central...

Do a search for Manchester Piccadilly to Warrington Stations, that should solve it!

I cannot find these Virgin Only fares though. They are not in my Avantix machine (i have set the date to next week, so they should show as the new manual has started by then), nor are they listed on the FRPP website in either the fares finder or fares finder amendments.

 

[yorkie]

Also for journeys wholly within the GMPTE area you need to specify Manchester Ctlz (although that's not the case with Warrington, which is outside the area).

 

[Mintona]

I am sure Virgin launched these Virgin-only fares last year?

 

[yorkie]

I'm pretty sure TOCs are allowed to bar PRIV discount to TOC specific tickets. For example, Grand Central do. I know you will say "but they're not full members of ATOC" but I am pretty sure that TOC specific tickets are not regulated in the same way as inter-available tickets. They could be withdrawn at any time, and TOCs can do strange discounts with them. It doesn't really fit within the definition of so-called "simple" ticketing, but that's just a sham anyway.

 

[trickyvegas]

I am sure Virgin launched these Virgin-only fares last year?

I bought one from Macclesfield-Stockport about 3 months ago. Rather annoyingly the departure board inside the ticket office doesn't indicate the operator of the services, so you have to seek out the timetable or make a leap of faith with your purchase.

 

[323235]

I bought one from Macclesfield-Stockport about 3 months ago. Rather annoyingly the departure board inside the ticket office doesn't indicate the operator of the services, so you have to seek out the timetable or make a leap of faith with your purchase.

If doing a Single Journey from Macclesfield-Stockport on a Virgin Trains Only its actually cheaper to get one to Manchester Stns. £3.70 (SDS to Stockport) vs £3.00 (prev £2.80) (CDS to Picc)

I tried to do this once before with a railcard (£1.85 Picc CDS) - Now £2)), however when I asked the Ticket Clerk at Macclesfield if BOJ was permitted on the Manchester one, he incorrectly told me it was only permitted on a RTN Journey. I took his word for it and bought the £2.45 (£3.70) SDS to Stockport.

Once I got NFM05 I looked it up and found out that as I had suspected BOJ is permitted, in the case of the CDR Return, in Both Directions.

 

[TTI]

These "Virgin Only" tickets were launched March 30th, 2009 between Stoke/Crewe to Manchester and, later in the year, expanded them to their intermediate stations on those routes to/from Macclesfield/Stockport/Manchester. They include Season Tickets as well and are (almost all) 25% cheaper than the fare set by the principal operator on the route. BUT, THEY ARE MORE TROUBLE THAN THEY ARE WORTH! as it causes confusion with the public and other operators on the route.

One anomaly is that the 25% less general rule doesn't apply to the MACCLESFIELD-MANCHESTER CDR fare "Virgin Trains only" which is a mega-cheap £2.80 (£3.00 now?) - even cheaper than 'half-price' Cheap Evening Return.

They brought them out due to "losses of revenue" and it was their answer to shore up these "losses". But we all know why VIRGIN "lose money" on medium/short distance journey, don't we? as they can't be bothered to collect 'shared revenue' flows!!

The public are always using them on any train rather than VT's trains which can be down to one-an-hour on these routes. I have seen many of these punters "try these on" on other trains because they can't wait up to an hour for the VT service hoping "it won't matter" and when caught by XC,NT,ATW then throw a strop at the guard , blame everyone but themselves and sometimes refuse to buy another ticket and get off in a huff at places like, Prestbury! LOL!

One way to "kill these off" is if the principal operator(s) do is: reduce the price of walk-up fares to below these VT fares (like what ATW vs FGW did in South Wales). Then when we'll get back to one "any permitted" fare for each short distance flow, THAT would be a true simplification of fares and punters can use any train, up to 4 trains per hour rather than wait an hour for the VT one.

 

[metrocammel]

From a 'making it simple for the passenger' point of view, it is crazy to offer TOC specific tickets on short-hop routes, where a multitude of TOCs operate the same route. I'm sure most normal passengers don't study the sides of trains, and therefore to the untrained eye, a silvery looking XC Voyager could look very similar to a VT Pendolino. Afterall, XC was part of Virgin until a couple of years back, so it's an understandable mistake.