New SWR Smart ticket - observations

[K.o.R]

SWR have finally extended their Smart ticketing, at least for season tickets, to my area's stations, so I took the opportunity to get an exchange (no more pulling an increasingly battered ticket to put through the barriers!).

So far I've only been able to use the ticket at Havant, Bedhampton and Fratton and have made the following observations:

- Platform validators at intermediate stations won't give you a green light ever. This is apparently an IT problem which they are working on. Bit inconvenient if RPIs are doing a spot check as you can't just stick it on the validator for a quick confirmation.

- Havant's sole platform validator doesn't appear to work at all, as it doesn't give any reaction to any smart card. Apparently it does read them, as it activated my season ticket even if I didn't know about it.

- Havant's barriers, at least on the ticket office side, behave oddly. They only appear to let you through once in each direction within about 5 minutes, whereas the barriers on Platform 2 will let me go in and out as much as I please. I don't know if this was because the P1 gates were open at the time, but P2's worked whether they were open or not.

Tomorrow I will get to test at Portsmouth & Southsea and possibly Harbour as well.

 

[K.o.R]

Tuesday: No-one checking tickets on the train so I still don't know if their machines work properly.

Card won't operate the barriers at Portsmouth & Southsea because this is also an intermediate station. Staff on the ticket gate was adamant that my card wasn't valid at all because it is a South West Trains branded card. Her machine also was unable to read it, but she was happy once we put the card on the ticket machine and it showed the season ticket.

Called SWR to check this and was told that no, it doesn't matter what kind of smart card it is, it is valid as long as there is a ticket on it (and the ITSO shell itself has not expired, which for this card is in 2026). Unfortunately I am going to have to ask to be let through the barriers every time until their IT people fix it; they are apparently fielding a large number of support calls this morning. So much for technology.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Aren't the platform validators just for delivering ticket?

 

[K.o.R]

Apparently yes. But you would still expect them to, well, validate your ticket regardless. Otherwise, how can one obey the instructions on the back of the Smart Card saying "Remember to touch in at the start, and touch out at the end of your journey." Too used to Oyster pedestal validators, clearly!

Edit: I'm just thinking, there are probably five or six different ITSO cards that I could have, living in Portsmouth - SWT Smart, SWR Touch, Key, Stagecoach Smart, SolentGo, FirstBus Touch, or indeed a bus pass of any kind, so seven varieties, six of which are not SWR.

 

[K.o.R]

Return trip this afternoon: Still nothing on the barriers at Portsmouth & Southsea; the staff just waved me through as he had nothing to read my card with. Went down to Portsmouth Harbour and got nothing on the validators there either; I was kind of expecting those ones at least to work since the technical end point of my ticket is Portsmouth Harbour.

I also found a friendly guard who had a working reader and was able to show me the ticket on the card. So, that's all good.

 

[Muzer]

Apparently yes. But you would still expect them to, well, validate your ticket regardless. Otherwise, how can one obey the instructions on the back of the Smart Card saying "Remember to touch in at the start, and touch out at the end of your journey." Too used to Oyster pedestal validators, clearly!

Edit: I'm just thinking, there are probably five or six different ITSO cards that I could have, living in Portsmouth - SWT Smart, SWR Touch, Key, Stagecoach Smart, SolentGo, FirstBus Touch, or indeed a bus pass of any kind, so seven varieties, six of which are not SWR.

Ah, but only two of them will actually *work* on SWR, as all but the first two will be trying to use different backends (as far as I'm aware)...

 

[K.o.R]

The card number is likely put into the backend when the ticket is stored on it. If there is a different backend then it should be the barrier making the decision as to which to use. But regardless, an ITSO card is an ITSO card.

Maybe I should see if I can register a Key on SWR's site.

 

[Muzer]

The card number is likely put into the backend when the ticket is stored on it. If there is a different backend then it should be the barrier making the decision as to which to use. But regardless, an ITSO card is an ITSO card.

Maybe I should see if I can register a Key on SWR's site.

I tried this a while back, and definitely couldn't. In many cases the card numbers are in completely different formats so aren't even accepted by different websites. In my case I tried to sign my South West Trains-issued Stagecoach Smart card to the bus-issued Stagecoach Smart card database, and it wouldn't work. I think I've also tried signing up rail The Keys to bus The Key websites and vice versa, again, with no success. The government have screwed up royally on this one. But why's that a surprise?

 

[K.o.R]

In many cases the card numbers are in completely different formats

I don't have many cards to use as a reference, but my mum's bus pass differs from my SWT card in the second group of 4 digits; with the last 8 digits being the ones asked for by the SWR helpline and website.

It would be interesting to know what the various parts of the number are (they all seem to start 633597, perhaps the second set of 4 is a manufacturer's number?).

 

[K.o.R]

From https://www.itso.org.uk/download/42151.2/part-2-customer-media-data-and-customer-media-architecture/

633597 is ITSO's identifier, the next 4 are the operator's identifier and the last 8 are the card serial number and check digit. This does seem to mean that a) each operator can only issue 10 million cards and b) that two different operators could have the same card number if only checking the last 8 digits.

 

[Chris999999]

There is no need to worry. It will all be sorted within 7 months:

DfT looks at full smart ticketing roll-out by 2018 with £80m boost
The government has set out details of an £80m programme to introduce smart ticketing across England and Wales by the end of 2018.

The investment will go towards ensuring that all passengers have the choice of travelling without a paper ticket by the end of 2018, with smart cards hosted on their mobile phones.

Mobile barcode ticketing will be rolled out on every rail franchise in the country. A pilot of this technology is expected in the next four months.

Chris Grayling, the transport secretary, said: “Passengers across the country want smart ticketing and this government will deliver it.

“This significant investment will ensure that passengers across the network can use mobile phones, bar codes and smart cards across almost all of the network by the end of next year.”

 

[island]

Hahaha, you made a funny.

 

[talldave]

I think 2028 for a full rollout is more realistic bearing in mind the incompetence of the organisations involved.

You can't throw money and technology at institutionally prehistoric industries and expect results. Look at the plans for smart metering - take organisations that can just about cope with two meter readings a year, expect them to install 26m new meters and handle 24 meter readings a day from all of them. Result - no deadlines met and a total shambles.

 

[Sleepy]

Who needs a smart meter anyway - all this rubbish about saving money, just turn things off ! No energy company is going to bully me into having one !

 

[Haywain]

The government have screwed up royally on this one.

Ain't that the truth! If the government wanted a national smart card it could have had one, but it prefers to do things at arms length and let every operator have their own. Which gets us to the current mess.

The government has set out details of an £80m programme to introduce smart ticketing across England and Wales by the end of 2018.

£80m. Rather less than half the amount the industry said it needed to achieve this when it was asked. And that figure isn't really the amount available as it includes VAT.

 

[talldave]

Who needs a smart meter anyway - all this rubbish about saving money, just turn things off ! No energy company is going to bully me into having one !

I agree, once you've replaced all your halogen bulbs and the 20yr old freezer then consumption stabilises at a lower level and a smart meter is pointless. That said, the technology would allow switching to another supplier overnight for cheaper car charging electricity. However, I doubt if our prehistoric energy suppliers will get around to that in my lifetime.

 

[K.o.R]

Ticket inspectors for the most part don't seem to care about checking that I actually have a ticket on my card.

 

[brtom]

Ticket inspectors for the most part don't seem to care about checking that I actually have a ticket on my card.

I had mine checked for the first time just last week (I've had one for a year and a half by now). This is probably lucky given that one or two times ive got to a station and the ticket hasnt loaded properly. Apart from that it seems OK, but lacking in any real advantage save saving trees.

 

[K.o.R]

I wonder when they'll get the whole "intermediate stations" thing worked out...

 

[swt_passenger]

I wonder when they'll get the whole "intermediate stations" thing worked out...

They’ve never got break of journey reliably working on mag stripe, I doubt they’ll ever improve it much with smart cards.

 

[DelW]

... but lacking in any real advantage save saving trees.

For non season ticket holders, I can see no advantage at all in the decidedly un-smart card ticketing system that DfT, RDG, & TOCs have inflicted on us. The saving in cardboard and printing is trivial, and must be negligible in comparison with the cost of installing multiple card readers at SWT stations a decade or so ago, most of which seem to be unused.

Unfortunately the government and rail industry seem to specialise in producing unreliable and inconvenient card and smartphone based ticketing systems, and then blaming and punishing passengers when the system breaks down (see multiple threads on the Fares forum, including the recent failure of the Railcard app).

I for one have no intention of moving away from physical tickets while this mindset persists.

 

[infobleep]

Ah, but only two of them will actually *work* on SWR, as all but the first two will be trying to use different backends (as far as I'm aware)...

Could you load a ticket onto an ISTO that cannot be read?

Edit: ignore my question. Its been answered.

 

[jon0844]

The government have screwed up royally on this one. But why's that a surprise?

For something so important, the DfT/RDG should have been leading the project nationally, then getting each TOC to implement something that was based on an agreed standard.

I know ITSO is a standard but the implementation isn't interoperable, and from a marketing point of view, something like smartcard ticketing should have been marketed properly as a nationwide thing, with the BR/National Rail logo.

Individual cards could still carry branding for a TOC, or advertising, or anything (a bit like Oyster) but you would have had a single website to manage your cards, a single number to call to report a lost card etc, and data that could be accessed by any TOC as you travelled.

I hear that by year end they want some sort of national system but with the speed the railway works, how is that going to happen?

 

[DelW]

For something so important, the DfT/RDG should have been leading the project nationally, then getting each TOC to implement something that was based on an agreed standard.

I know ITSO is a standard but the implementation isn't interoperable, and from a marketing point of view, something like smartcard ticketing should have been marketed properly as a nationwide thing, with the BR/National Rail logo.

Individual cards could still carry branding for a TOC, or advertising, or anything (a bit like Oyster) but you would have had a single website to manage your cards, a single number to call to report a lost card etc, and data that could be accessed by any TOC as you travelled.

+1 to that!

Off topic here, but government or its agencies have similarly fouled up with e-tags for road tolls - it's ridiculous that every toll has its own incompatible tag system. I occasionally use Dartford, Severn, Midland expressway, etc. and would buy a tag that worked all of them, but I'm not going to fill my windscreen with several separate ones. In the US, although separate states jealousy guard their independence, in New England at least, toll e-tags work seamlessly across state borders, so it is possible.

Back on topic, what hope is there for a unified system across fragmented TOCs if DfT can't even ensure compatibility within its own jurisdiction?

 

[Wallsendmag]

DfT RDG are leading the roll out

 

[Hadders]

DfT RDG are leading the roll out

That explains the shambles then...

 

[K.o.R]

I tested with my mum's bus pass; the ticket machine refused to read it. This is irksome because there are places (Newcastle Metro) where you can use a bus pass to hold a rail or otherwise not-bus ticket.

 

[pompeyfan]

@K.o.R, the facility to read smart cards on SWR ticket devices has only recently been activated. They are much quicker than the old smart card readers that revenue staff were issued with, but can still take a few seconds.

Staff also might have to log back into their account if the machine has been dormant for a while (30 minute or so), then select ITSO reader, then physically read the card, then mentally process what the card is saying. This whole process can take a while, so some staff take the attitude to wave through smart cards. Added to this on a well loaded 450 it might involve leaning across two/four people to read their smart card.

The other thing is that I’m aware that not all smart cards read on devices, but apparently activated barriers and platform validators, initially staff were told to use discretion if the card is showing a blank, so even if the card was empty the passenger still had a free ride, this also led to a culture of waving smart cards through. I think RPI’s are now clamping down on blank smart cards, much to the annoyance of passengers who are being made to buy new tickets or even being PF’d even though they believe they’ve got a valid ticket.

Not making excuses, just commenting on my observations.

 

[K.o.R]

What is the "wand" I saw the inspector use to check my Oyster card on an FCC service some years back? It had 3 LEDs that lit up almost instantly. Was that to do with Oyster functioning in a different way (storing the "validation" token on the card, maybe)?

In processing terms a season ticket on a card is actually pretty "dumb" - Until date x, unconditionally activate all barriers and validators at stations y and z, and also at stations b, c and d which are in-between.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I tested with my mum's bus pass; the ticket machine refused to read it. This is irksome because there are places (Newcastle Metro) where you can use a bus pass to hold a rail or otherwise not-bus ticket.

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