New stations in the 1980s

[Mojo]

I've just been browsing sites such as Wikipedia and noticed that there seems to be quite a number of stations on the ex-Regional Railways network that opened/reopened in the 1980s and early 90s. I can think of at least three in my local area.

Were there actually many stations that opened/reopened in that period, largely consistent with the time between Maggie's election and privatisation, or is it just a coincidence? Were many more stations opened during that period than in the last ten years?

It also seems to me that many of these stations were constructed using a minimalist & modular design, with minimal facilities and some with hollow platforms, such as this example at Cam & Dursley (opened 1994).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Cam_and_Dursley.jpg

 

[1D53]

The absolute vast majority in West Yorkshirewere constructed with hollow platforms. Round here we have East Garforth. Bramley, Burley Park, Cottingley, Cross Flatts, Deighton, Featherstone, Fitzwilliam, Frizinghall, Marsden (3rd platform), Mirfield, Outwood, Saltaire, Sandal & Agbrigg, Slaithwaite, Steeton & Silsden and Walsden. Some are starting to show age now. Mainly it was the intervention of Metro (West Yorkshire PTE).

 

[me123]

Local examples for me are The Whifflet Line and Maryhill Line. Both lines feature no ticket offices of machines except at terminus stations, to Passenger Information (except a button if you want to talk to Paisley). Whilst they were clearly a quick way to get services up and running again, and I applaud SPT reopening these lines, they do need ticket purchasing facicilities, especially on the Whifflet line. The morning peak (in reality the only services that need this) is packed and there can be a 10 minute wait (no exaggeration!) at GLC whilst the people sell tickets, to be fair, as fast as they can.

 

[bluenoxid]

The absolute vast majority in West Yorkshirewere constructed with hollow platforms. Round here we have East Garforth. Bramley, Burley Park, Cottingley, Cross Flatts, Deighton, Featherstone, Fitzwilliam, Frizinghall, Marsden (3rd platform), Mirfield, Outwood, Saltaire, Sandal & Agbrigg, Slaithwaite, Steeton & Silsden and Walsden. Some are starting to show age now. Mainly it was the intervention of Metro (West Yorkshire PTE).

Steeton and Silsden is screaming for an expansion of its car park and a ticket office. Many have received refurbs in recent years. In Manchester, they are also receiving refurbs currently

 

[djw1981]

Local examples for me are The Whifflet Line and Maryhill Line. Both lines feature no ticket offices of machines except at terminus stations, to Passenger Information (except a button if you want to talk to Paisley). Whilst they were clearly a quick way to get services up and running again, and I applaud SPT reopening these lines, they do need ticket purchasing facicilities, especially on the Whifflet line. The morning peak (in reality the only services that need this) is packed and there can be a 10 minute wait (no exaggeration!) at GLC whilst the people sell tickets, to be fair, as fast as they can.

It is a deliberate policy by SPT to 'force' people to buy zonecards.......

If you look at the 1980's stations in Scotland, you also come across the electrification of teh Ayrshire lines, with new stations at Miliken Park, Howwood, Prestwick Airport (1994), Whinhill (1998) Dumfrochar (1998), IBM. Several of these were re-openings on the site of older stations closed in the 1950's & 60's.

The station openings and investment in 2ndgeneration DMU's - 14x and 15x series were a response by the then government to the serious road overcrowding, and the failure to control this by new road buoilding. In an acceptance that something had to be done, they invested in this new sock, electrification, new commuter stations and signalling.

The cynics amongst you may notice that some of the Junior ministers who made such decisions were the ones who later proposed privatisation, having just improved the service and thus the price they would get for a cash strapped UK (we still are cash strapped, but Gordon Brown just decided we could borrow more now that we were allowed to back then) Government. Interestinglky even the great privatiser-in-chief Maggie didn't feel that Rail would be better off in teh private sector as she said it was national infrastructure and needed to be controled as a whole, maybe with some private sector ideas and methodology - hence the sectorisation etc, but never privatised wholesale.

 

[me123]

It is a deliberate policy by SPT to 'force' people to buy zonecards.......

Why am I not surprised that money's involved somewhere :roll: (other than the obvious cost of personnel or machines)

 

[175001]

Llanrwst main station on the Conwy Valley, was built in 1989, and replaced the old station, which is now North Llanrwst

 

[djw1981]

Why am I not surprised that money's involved somewhere :roll: (other than the obvious cost of personnel or machines)

Well you didn't think TfL brought out the Oyster card just for a laugh did you?
Especially pre-pay Oyster...they can invest that money for the time between you pre-paying, and them having to pay bills. Most councils etc are major investors (remember BCCI and teh Scottish councils in 1991, actually you probably don't - see http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2003/may/15/bcci etc.

And whilst money is involved, the Zonecard argument is one which must be supported - it is cheaper, quicker to buy, tax deductable in many cases (or in some lucky cases your employer will buy it for you to encourage travel by public transport) and you can sue it at weekends to travel into town for pleasure. These are the benefits of any type of season ticket, amnd I fail to see why it is not encouraged more.

In Tyne & wear, both my parents employers allow them to buya yearly zonecard equivalent through the employerm, at reduced price, with the cost taken off in 10 monthly installments from their salary. The employee gets cheaper travel, the providers get a steady income stream, and teh employer gets 'green credentials' and needs to provide less parking spaces.

Interestingly, the zonecard would mean less income for the provider FSR, since the money would go into the Zonecard pot and be divided up according to public transport use on the various corridors of travel. Thus one could argue that it is in their interest to supply the machines at stations to ensure they get all the ticket price. However this must be set against installation costs and staffing for revenue collection (and as such, stations with high footfall will always be equipped before the smaller stations).

I would like to see a reverse ticket machione produced, on the platforms at Central where you could buy a ticket TO GLASGOW instead of from Glasgow to X, allowing Passengers to buy a ticket on the platform, instead of from the staff with the Advantix machines, this would greatly improve the speed through the manual ticket checks.

 

[me123]

I accept that SPT get the money, I just think that FSR, as the service provider, should be able to get the money from this. After all, they provide the trains, staff and service on the route. Also, I only use the line off-peak. When I do go on the busier services, I feel I suffer because of the lack of machines available. Thus, I have to wait for a long time at Central station (occasionally with the 6-car EK train on the opposite platform) to try and get a ticket.

I would also like the machines to do remote origin tickets. It can save a lot of time of you are connecting, especially with a railcard (I have been told off in the past for trying to buy a ticket on a train with a railcard because my connecting service was 5 late).

 

[djw1981]

You can buy your tickets from any staffed station though, before you start.

FSR do get the money, based on the passenger surveys and loadings within the SPT region. They just only get a portion of it, because you can obviously travel by bus or subway on a Zonecard, and so those operators also receive money.

 

[me123]

Oh. I know I can buy a ticket anywhere (i do it all the time), thing was that I boarded at a station with a machine and hence no oppertunity to by remote origin tickets. (I couldn't get the ticket i wanted without breaking the Routeing Guide, and I was in a hurry at 'tother end. Long story...).

The SPT Zonecard is flawed to an extent, and I'd rather see an Oyster-like system installed which would allow the money to go to the company who transport the passenger; no point FSR getting money from a bus user, is there? It's a lot fairer.

 

[theblackwatch]

I have a copy of a book published back in 1989 by the Railway Development Society, entitled "A-Z of Rail Reopenings". It details some 235 new/reopened/relocated stations from 1953 through to 1989 - and around 160 of these were in the 1980s.

One of the chapters in the book compares counties - the biggest three being Strathclyde (28), West Yorkshire (16) and Greater Manchester (15). It also makes mention of a non-PTE area (South Wales) and the re-opening of 16 stations there.

The book also lists almost 500 stations that have been suggested for reopening. Of interest for Mojo are that 4 are listed for Avon: Ashley Down, Lockleaze, Long Ashton and Worle.

 

[djw1981]

Oh. I know I can buy a ticket anywhere (i do it all the time), thing was that I boarded at a station with a machine and hence no oppertunity to by remote origin tickets. (I couldn't get the ticket i wanted without breaking the Routeing Guide, and I was in a hurry at 'tother end. Long story...).

The SPT Zonecard is flawed to an extent, and I'd rather see an Oyster-like system installed which would allow the money to go to the company who transport the passenger; no point FSR getting money from a bus user, is there? It's a lot fairer.

If anything, FSR lose out from the surrent system, and it functions to support 'social' bus services which would be uneconomic in their own right, but which the local council, through SPT fee;ls are necessary for community life. IIRC, the early Strathclyde Sunday services were run on a similar basis, before they built up sufficient custom streams to be economically viable.

Oyster would work, but would require larger bus subsidies, which would in turn mean smaller rail subsidies, so FSR may end up with the same amount of money.

 

[me123]

True. The 310 bus service; I've never EVER seen anyone on it (wonder how anyone can argue that service is anything but a waste of hydrocarbons). I presume the money they make then runs such silly services that are probably used by 10 people a day or something. I'd imagine it also helps fund the otherwise silly CUB-MTH service, which never seems to have more than 10 people on it at a time (excluding peak time trains, when a whole 30 people hop on).

Couldn't SPT take these unprofitable "social" buses, with no passengers, out the system and invest the money in sensible things, like a Sunday service to Shotts or Whifflet? (I'm sure Lesjordans'll like that idea )

 

[djw1981]

That depends if you believe that public transport is a social service, or should only be demand responsive.

The Cumbernauld-Motherwell service was a political development(!) to help link the two ends of North Lanarkshire, which were still operating as 3 or 4 distinct towns.

Social public transport in Strathclyde is funded according to the principles outlined on teh SPT website http://www.spt.co.uk/bus/background.html#subsidised . I think the rail services on Sunday are also dependent on finding sufficient drivers who are willing to work sundays.

Also, Transport Scotland specify the rail service, and since FSR franchise did not include a requirement, or funding for the aforementioned sunday services, it is an FSR decision whether to run them. TS can include them in the next franchise if it wants to fund them.

 

[me123]

The CUB-MTH service is acually a valuable service. As a frequnt user, it does allow me to travel to/from Edinburgh bypassing Glasgow at a much cheaper price than the routes via Glasgow do, and thus connecitons to all over the UK. My only point is that a 153 would provide the capacity and the additional 2 carriages are therefore released. (I know driver will disagree, but I'd like FSr to get some 153s to beef up peak time 156 services and to run the MTH-CUB train, releasing 156s and porviding extra capacity. Of course, it won't happen...)

I still think an hourly underused bus service that runs along the North Clyde Line is a waste of SPT money, but when you take it away I'm sure the community wil protest against the loss of a "lifeline" service :roll:

 

[Lesjordans]

Couldn't SPT take these unprofitable "social" buses, with no passengers, out the system and invest the money in sensible things, like a Sunday service to Shotts or Whifflet? (I'm sure Lesjordans'll like that idea )

Oh i will! Its stewed in corruption that we dont get a sunday service!

 

[djw1981]

Buses do have the ability to go closer to the homes of the elderly etc (though they also have Dial a ride).... Personally I think the Maryhill line service is also a waste of money - either make it every 15 minutes.....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ref thw Whifflet line: Hardly.......it is a low usage line. Just hush ()and wait 5 years for your EMUs
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The CUB-MTH service is acually a valuable service. As a frequnt user, it does allow me to travel to/from Edinburgh bypassing Glasgow at a much cheaper price than the routes via Glasgow do,

So is Motherwell-Edinburgh cheaper because you buy it as Mothrwell-Cumbo, Cumbo-Falkirk G'ston and Falkirk G'ston to Edinburgh (journey time 90min?), or is there a ticket which can be used on NXEC/XC and FSR avoiding Glasgow?

 

[me123]

^If we get 320s, I'm moving

I like the Maryhill line. It's a nice ride (nicer than the conventional route from Anniesland anyway) and you get a wee ride on a 156 or 158, neither of which is too bad. But I can count the number of people onboard with one hand. I don't know about peak time services, but if this is always the case, perhaps a bus link would be better for this route, which take away two trains an hour.

 

[djw1981]

Unlikely, last I heard was 334, because they would loop the current Motherwell terminators (Hamilton Circle) up via Whifflet then back up Argyle line to terminate in the region of Exhibition Centre (capacity restraints prevent them reaching Partick)

 

[me123]

So is Motherwell-Edinburgh cheaper because you buy it as Mothrwell-Cumbo, Cumbo-Falkirk G'ston and Falkirk G'ston to Edinburgh (journey time 90min?), or is there a ticket which can be used on NXEC/XC and FSR avoiding Glasgow?

Just buy a tucket in advance from CBC-EDB. It can be used via Motherwell, or Falkirk. £7.90 day single compared to the £12 via Glasgow Queen Street. And you don't have to go on a 320
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Unlikely, last I heard was 334, because they would loop the current Motherwell terminators (Hamilton Circle) up via Whifflet then back up Argyle line to terminate in the region of Exhibition Centre (capacity restraints prevent them reaching Partick)

WAYHAY!!! A direct Coatbridge-Hamilton Service!!! I've been waiting for a while! Shame I'll leave school before it comes to fruition...

 

[djw1981]

^If we get 320s, I'm moving

I like the Maryhill line. It's a nice ride (nicer than the conventional route from Anniesland anyway) and you get a wee ride on a 156 or 158, neither of which is too bad. But I can count the number of people onboard with one hand. I don't know about peak time services, but if this is always the case, perhaps a bus link would be better for this route, which take away two trains an hour.

Light rail would for this as well. It is important for the sleeper I guess, especially with the proposed diversion of Cumbernauld services, and the A-B trains into Queen St low level.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

WAYHAY!!! A direct Coatbridge-Hamilton Service!!! I've been waiting for a while! Shame I'll leave school before it comes to fruition...

Any kind of connection between North & South Lanarkshire was always going to be problematic. Look at the huge junction they built at the M74 to separate the two civic centres!

 

[me123]

Yes. And WHL service use the line, so one could argue that without the commuter services, the line is unnecessary as trains can be reroutes and from there, you get slight chaos.

 

[djw1981]

You cannot currently route any more services between Partick & Hyndland Junction........ - hence why the Edinburgh service has to be an extension of existing services, or there needs the Kelvinhaugh turnback; hence why the new Whiflet EMU on teh argyle line will result in some trains terminating at Exhibition Centre. 4-tracking through Hyndland station is possible (effectively relocating the Junction to between Hyndland and Partick, but 4 track through Partick needs a new viaduct building. Headrooms are already at 2-3 minutes in the peak.

 

[me123]

Yes, it's tough. Partick is choca-block witht rains and passenegrs as it is. With the refurb nearing completion, they won't 4-track for a while. It'd cause major disruption anyway. Couldn't they, however, take the express Larkhall service and terminate that at Central HL, thus allowing the Whifflet train to take over that path. Or would that defeat the whole purpose?

It's a huge problem. whoever designed Partick clearly didn't see the potential for expansion.

 

[djw1981]

The point is to free up space at Central Hl for more Ayrshire services, GARL, Kilmarnock half hourly etc.

There was never the money or will to fund a 4 tracking between the Finniston junctions and Hyndland junctions. Especially not by widening that vaiduct. hence why SPT went with shortening headway and lengthening trains to increase capacity. Our trains are not long by NSE standards, and could be lengthened, with the associated station alterations etc.

 

[me123]

I had a feeling extra HL space was wanted... Am I right in thinking that an extra loop at Exhibition Centre would be required, as the siding there IIRC only runs from the Westbound platform?

Does this then result in all Bellshill trains terminating in Lanark (or Castairs at peaks?). Also, would this result in a Sunday service on the Whifflets?

 

[djw1981]

The hypothetical was to splay the tracks at Exhibition centre and have a third terminal platform in the centre which could reach both tracks, to avoid blocking both lines. The Kelvinhaugh turnback could be just like a single lead junction to a short stum, like the turnback siding at newton.

The exact combination of services has not yet been released, so we can only guess!

 

[me123]

Ahh, for once the railway companies have made a flawless plan! You've got Coatbridge to SLanarkshire and a direct link to the SECC as well. Additionally freeing up space at the High Level. I'll miss the approach to the High Level station, but I'm sure that's not high up on their agenda.

 

[djw1981]

You can go to MotherHell and catch a NX then just to go in that way if you want!