New routes for Avanti?

[321362]

LNER don’t seem too bothered about having a uniform fleet after ordering 897s. Where would you send TPXs 397s?

TPE core once it's wired, to avoid 185s running under the wires.

 

[Peter0124]

I wonder whether some trains to Glasgow Central could be rerouted via Dumfries and Kilmarnock and stop there, even if not at other intermediate stations? Admittedly they would need a diesel loco fitted at Carlisle. Also, due to platform lengths this may limit how many carriages could be used at these stations.

That would come with a massive time penalty for Glasgow pax. Plus having the complexity of needing 805 stock on the particular services if a diesel loco isn't available.

What would happen if the service was last minute swapped with a 390, as happens with Liverpool South Parkway services?

 

[dk1]

TPE core once it's wired, to avoid 185s running under the wires.

Those thirsty 185s I always expected to end up with Northern but they seem to want a new uniform fleet to replace their 15X units. Liverpool-Cleethorpes/Redcar/Scarborough will need them for many years yet i suppose and by then they’ll be long in the tooth.

 

[Bald Rick]

I wonder whether some trains to Glasgow Central could be rerouted via Dumfries and Kilmarnock and stop there, even if not at other intermediate stations? Admittedly they would need a diesel loco fitted at Carlisle. Also, due to platform lengths this may limit how many carriages could be used at these stations.

That would cost taxpayers tens of millions of pounds a year in lost revenue and extra cost.

Nothing significant happened to the routes served from Euston after privatisation, why would nationalisation be any different?

Plenty happened, and contiues to. Much improved frequencies on all long distance routes from Euston. Vsstly improved service for the Trent Valley (arguably too good a service). Much improved W Mids to Scotland service. Much improved Manchester / Liverpool to Scotland service - Preston to Scotland has about twice the number of services it had at privatisation.

I’d be surprised if we didn’t see some changes where there are currently ‘competing’ services, both in service levels and pricing.

 

[Falcon1200]

I wonder whether some trains to Glasgow Central could be rerouted via Dumfries and Kilmarnock and stop there, even if not at other intermediate stations?

At the expense of around an hour longer journey time between Carlisle and Glasgow Central, plus the time to attach and detach the loco at Carlisle, plus the cost of providing said loco, and a means of releasing it at the Glasgow end. Unlikely I would think!

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Manchester Victoria

 

[Tester]

I wonder whether some trains to Glasgow Central could be rerouted via Dumfries and Kilmarnock and stop there, even if not at other intermediate stations? Admittedly they would need a diesel loco fitted at Carlisle. Also, due to platform lengths this may limit how many carriages could be used at these stations.

There used to be one a day, as well as the overnight. In the 1970s it was 1405 from Euston - not sure about southbound.

 

[317 forever]

There used to be one a day, as well as the overnight. In the 1970s it was 1405 from Euston - not sure about southbound.

Oh, that's a surprise to find out!

The consensus has been that it would be too expensive to have been worth bothering with.

 

[dk1]

Oh, that's a surprise to find out!

The consensus has been that it would be too expensive to have been worth bothering with.

It probably doubled up as a peak local service as well as carrying post/parcel traffic so was convenient operationally. Loco-hauled was also a thing back in the day.

 

[Russel]

I'd just be happy with a few weeks of nice, consistent, problem free running of the routes they already operate to be honest.

 

[Trackman]

Maybe one day, thinking 15 to 20 years hence, there will be good enough capacity improvements to allow this, although I feel it could be done Bolton to London via a new loop at Wigan where one possibly used to be? So no need to block the corridor!

That would be like a reverse of what the Windsor link did!
Before the Windsor Link, most tickets from Bolton (if not all) were routed via Wigan NW/Wallgate.
I was content with the little Centreline bus, back then Manchester was like a ghost town so the little bus would speed through the city centre.

Manchester Victoria

What kind of routes in mind?
Not saying it's a bad suggestion.

 

[Tester]

Oh, that's a surprise to find out!

The consensus has been that it would be too expensive to have been worth bothering with.

100% loco haulage then of course.

Back then I saw it as an inconvenience in getting to Glasgow, and a train to avoid!

Ironically I now have a reason to visit Dumfries, but changing at Carlisle is no hardship.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Dumfries - Mauchline - Annbank - Ayr - Paisley - City Union - Duke Street. Having to walk 7 minutes across Glasgow really irks me!

Non facetious answer - maybe Euston - Wigan - Blackburn - Burnley might be worth a go?

(Also would echo ICWC being a more natural place for the Glasgow/Edinburgh - Manchester/Liverpool services)

 

[AlastairFraser]

Dumfries - Mauchline - Annbank - Ayr - Paisley - City Union - Duke Street. Having to walk 7 minutes across Glasgow really irks me!

Non facetious answer - maybe Euston - Wigan - Blackburn - Burnley might be worth a go?

(Also would echo ICWC being a more natural place for the Glasgow/Edinburgh - Manchester/Liverpool services)

Or perhaps a few Manchester Picc services in the off-peak being diverted at Ardwick via the Phillips Park line to Blackburn via stops at Rochdale, Todmorden, Burnley Manchester Road and Accrington?

 

[The Planner]

Or perhaps a few Manchester Picc services in the off-peak being diverted at Ardwick via the Phillips Park line to Blackburn via stops at Rochdale, Todmorden, Burnley Manchester Road and Accrington?

How are they going that way from the South, or are you suggesting they reverse at Picc to do that?

 

[jfollows]

There used to be one a day, as well as the overnight. In the 1970s it was 1405 from Euston - not sure about southbound.

1M25 07:05 from Glasgow Central, https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/avanti-gsw-diverts-march-2023.241900/page-2#post-6028642
The down service in 1974, following electrification of the other route, was 1S86 15:45 Euston to Glasgow Central, 19:43.5 from Carlisle.

 

[AlastairFraser]

How are they going that way from the South, or are you suggesting they reverse at Picc to do that?

Reverse at Ardwick? Appreciate it would be operationally a pain in the arse.
You could also use the Stockport to Ashton line with a couple of reversals if more convenient, although I acknowledge that it would still eat capacity.
There's quite a bit of demand from those towns to the South, especially now Burnley has a sizeable uni campus. Maybe something Avanti could consider post HS2.