New Routemaster buses

[radamfi]

The air cooling system should be one of the main benefits of the new bus, and it is OK in cool/mild weather as it prevents the windows steaming up, but it is simply not effective enough in warm weather. If the buses were built with three axles then a proper air conditioning system could have be installed. Nearly all places outside the UK and Ireland that use double deckers use triple-axle buses.

 

[Deerfold]

The air cooling system should be one of the main benefits of the new bus, and it is OK in cool/mild weather as it prevents the windows steaming up, but it is simply not effective enough in warm weather. If the buses were built with three axles then a proper air conditioning system could have be installed. Nearly all places outside the UK and Ireland that use double deckers use triple-axle buses.

Although the big hole in the back wouldn't help a proper air conditioning system either.

 

[alwaystouchout]

I've seen a few around Victoria and Westminster.

 

[Robertj21a]

As someone who regularly travels by bus in London, these buses are simply streets ahead of every other vehicle that runs bus services in the capital, and where I do travel by bus I will often choose a different route to the one that goes direct, so that I can travel on these vehicles as they offer a far superior travelling environment to the rest.

I fear that you are in a minority. My trips on them have been uncomfortably warm and they 'feel' terribly old-fashioned (but not in the 'nice' way that was intended).

Robert

 

[Goldfish62]

As someone who regularly travels by bus in London, these buses are simply streets ahead of every other vehicle that runs bus services in the capital, and where I do travel by bus I will often choose a different route to the one that goes direct, so that I can travel on these vehicles as they offer a far superior travelling environment to the rest.

Each to their own, but personally I find they're like furnaces in hot weather, the concrete seats are among the most uncomfortable around and the gloomy interior coupled with the restricted vision out of the top deck windows makes for a most depressing experience. Oh, and IMO they're pig-ugly! Give me an E400 any day!

On the plus side, the ride quality is excellent and the hybrid drive system (German) seems impressive.

 

[bicbasher]

Another one for watching at Charing Cross or Trafalgar Square. 9 and 11 along the Strand and the 24 along Charing Cross Road.

 

[Busaholic]

Were they? I know the Daily Borisgraph and the Evening Boris liked to claim that they were, but there were never any serious accidents or fatalities involving the bendies and a cyclist. Scrapping the bendies has put more buses on the road- the PVR on the 73 and 38 went up by about 30 buses between them- which is far more of a danger.

Tipper trucks, on the other hand, truly are a menace to cyclists, but Boris isn't doing anything at all about them.

The Citaro was perfect for the central area, with plenty of doors for boarding and all on one level. People won't go upstairs on deckers if they're only going a few stops, and I've lost count of the number of times a decker has gone past me at a bus stop "full" despite the upper deck being half-empty.

The only problem with the Citaro was that Livingstone introduced them.



Not in summer they aren't. Even the newest buses off the production line suffer from poor cooling, and they've done nothing at all about the mobile pizza ovens running on the 38.

IMO, the NBfL doesn't bring anything to London that couldn't have been delivered by the Volvo or Alexander Dennis hybrids. On hot days, my preferred bus is still the Eclipse Gemini 2, because the air cooling actually works.

Regret to say, because I think the bendies did a reasonable job on most routes, and an outstanding one on the 507/521, there was at least one serious accident involving a bendy and a cyclist, because I saw the aftermath.
It was on 28th January 2005, the last day of Routemasters on the 36, outside Bond Street tube around 4 p.m. Oxford Street was closed to all traffic for at least two hours and pedestrians, of which I was one, were only being allowed on the south side of Oxford Street. From what I saw, if that cyclist survived it would have been a miracle. The bus was, of course, on the 73, a route in my opinion most unsuitable for bendies. An unexpected consequence was seeing Routemasters on Oxford Street's last RM-operated route, the 13, being sent in service north up Orchard Street Aldwych-bound.
.

 

[Tom B]

They appear to be running without conductors relatively frequently, at which times the back door is locked off - which is not helpful when it's so warm. I've noticed that London bus drivers never leave the front doors open in summer either, which is common elsewhere, to allow air to circulate.

I did encounter a "conductor" who tried to prevent me from leaving one at traffic lights not long ago although since that is, ostensibly, their big selling point I'm not sure why.

 

[hassaanhc]

They appear to be running without conductors relatively frequently, at which times the back door is locked off - which is not helpful when it's so warm. I've noticed that London bus drivers never leave the front doors open in summer either, which is common elsewhere, to allow air to circulate.

I did encounter a "conductor" who tried to prevent me from leaving one at traffic lights not long ago although since that is, ostensibly, their big selling point I'm not sure why.

On more recent buses having the front doors open while the bus is moving sets off an alarm, on some models there is even an interlock preventing movement if the front doors are open.

 

[Deerfold]

I did encounter a "conductor" who tried to prevent me from leaving one at traffic lights not long ago although since that is, ostensibly, their big selling point I'm not sure why.

I believe that stopping people boarding and alighting between stops is their main job.

 

[Busaholic]

I believe that stopping people boarding and alighting between stops is their main job.

In which case their sole raison d'etre has disappeared (see all Boris's pronouncments unless he's applied for the right for them to be 'forgotten').As a bookseller, I look forward to Peter Hendy's autobiog, after he's retired.

 

[Mikey C]

Took a Borismaster this afternoon, not a roasting hot day, but definitely a warm day, and the temperature was fairly pleasant inside upstairs. I followed it with a regular E400, and sitting on the right hand side underneath the air cooling vents, it was a pleasant breeze, but very localised and ineffective at cooling the whole top deck,

 

[Robertj21a]

Took a Borismaster this afternoon, not a roasting hot day, but definitely a warm day, and the temperature was fairly pleasant inside upstairs. I followed it with a regular E400, and sitting on the right hand side underneath the air cooling vents, it was a pleasant breeze, but very localised and ineffective at cooling the whole top deck,

Try sitting downstairs, on the nearside, on a warm day.

Robert

 

[90sWereBetter]

I've grown to like the Borismaster over the past year. They're pretty decent kit.

I never liked the Citaro bendy buses and indeed refused to use the routes they were on until they were replaced. Horrible, horrible things.

 

[Tom B]

On more recent buses having the front doors open while the bus is moving sets off an alarm, on some models there is even an interlock preventing movement if the front doors are open.

That's strange. It was always the norm back home for buses to go around with the doors open during hot days in the summer, a practice which continues to this day - although First Mainline don't own anything which could be called a "recent" bus!

As others have said if the conductor's main job is to stop people from getting on/off the bus... why employ somebody on (say) 20k when you can leave the back door shut?! Madness.

 

[BuhSnarf]

Used to drive around with doors open up here in Midlands but I've not seen it happen for a while.

Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk

 

[Tetchytyke]

I did encounter a "conductor" who tried to prevent me from leaving one at traffic lights not long ago although since that is, ostensibly, their big selling point I'm not sure why.

I think it depends where you do it. On the 38 they get jumpy if you try and do it at Angel lights, but they don't if you try it down by Mount Pleasant.

The conductor's only job is to make sure that people are safe when they're getting on and off. They don't do revenue, though they do grump if you get on at the back door with a paper ticket.

Complete waste of money, if you ask me.

 

[Nym]

The seating downstairs has next to sod all legroom except in the priority seating due to being solid seats without cantilevers and those over the rear axle being too close together.

Upstairs the seats are better, but the needlessly curving roof and short windows result in a very claustrophobic environment, made much worse by not having sufficient de-humidifiers or opening windows, as a result, in any kind of damp & warm weather the windows upstairs all steam up, and repeatedly do so if you try and clear them with a cloth or your sleeve, so you can't see outside, and even if you can it's like everything is in superwide, cinematronic widescreen and difficult to see at all if you're over 5'6".

Not to mention that the over-axle seats downstairs are too high, with too lower roof so one always hit's one's head on the ceiling, the narrow walkway between the two and idiotic lack of luggage space (what would normally be stored under the seats).

In the end, one could buy nearly two standard buses for the cost of one of these VP buses, with a significantly higher residual value on a standard bus, the overall cost of these is likely to be way much higher than just, a, well, normal bus!

 

[Tom B]

I do wonder what happens after about 10 years - given that London bus operators have a habit of flogging their old vehicles to firms outwith the capital - nobody else is going to want a Borismaster!

 

[WillPS]

I do wonder what happens after about 10 years - given that London bus operators have a habit of flogging their old vehicles to firms outwith the capital - nobody else is going to want a Borismaster!

Not true:
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/leeds/travel_news/news_initiatives/?item=16281&conf=0

I expect their London-life will end up being considerably longer than their standard counterparts. If there is any life left when it comes to withdrawal somebody like Ensign will get them, seal up the real platform, rear staircase and the centre door. Ensign made their fortune originally by buying DMS buses en-masse from London Transport for a song and basically removing everything LT had specified to differentiate them from standard Daimler Fleetlines.

 

[Mikey C]

I do wonder what happens after about 10 years - given that London bus operators have a habit of flogging their old vehicles to firms outwith the capital - nobody else is going to want a Borismaster!

Normal London buses have such a different spec anyway (wheelchair ramp on the middle door, straight staircase, air cooling upstairs, conventional blinds) that it's a major conversion job to make even them useable for regular service outside the capital!

 

[IanD]

Normal London buses have such a different spec anyway (wheelchair ramp on the middle door, straight staircase, air cooling upstairs, conventional blinds) that it's a major conversion job to make even them useable for regular service outside the capital!

Is it? Or would just swapping the blinds do the job. I suspect it would. None of the other differences listed would stop the buses running elsewhere in the country.

 

[Mikey C]

Is it? Or would just swapping the blinds do the job. I suspect it would. None of the other differences listed would stop the buses running elsewhere in the country.

How many operators outside London want dual door buses? Converting to single door will require installing a front wheelchair ramp...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

How many operators outside London want dual door buses? Converting to single door will require installing a front wheelchair ramp...

There substantial numbers of conventional London spec deckers already cascaded out to the provinces by First and Arriva particularly? The straight staircase isn't a big deal, and neither is the destination screens. Air cooling can be isolated and/or removed. It's the wheelchair ramp and removing the centre door.

Arriva have just sent some B7/Geminis north (the north east have some plus others?) and the door conversion is barely identifiable. Same with First in Bristol where the ex London B7s rub shoulders with native examples.

That's the problem. Who will buy borismasters new or want them secondhand later, being so far removed from standard vehicles. Wacky drivetrains, multiple staircases and the rear platform; an expensive solution for a problem we never knew existed!

 

[IanD]

How many operators outside London want dual door buses?

That's not what you said, you said they wouldn't be useable.

 

[theageofthetra]

Why on earth would you remove the air cooling? Its very effective at preventing misting in wet weather and would be very effective in summer if idiots didn't open the windows.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Why on earth would you remove the air cooling? Its very effective at preventing misting in wet weather and would be very effective in summer if idiots didn't open the windows.

Cost and duration of maintenance plus the weight penalty increasing fuel consumption. In reality, it would more likely just be isolated as per the air con units on ex HK Darts that stagecoach and First had/have!

 

[Goldfish62]

I expect their London-life will end up being considerably longer than their standard counterparts.

The projected life in London is the same as other buses, ie 14 years, this being an assumed two extended contracts-worth. Obviously in reality this varies due to the tendering system.

 

[Mikey C]

The projected life in London is the same as other buses, ie 14 years, this being an assumed two extended contracts-worth. Obviously in reality this varies due to the tendering system.

I imagine there'll be a programme to upgrade the mechanical and electronic systems at some point during their life

 

[Deerfold]

Why on earth would you remove the air cooling? Its very effective at preventing misting in wet weather and would be very effective in summer if idiots didn't open the windows.

That's unlikely to be the problem as you can't open any windows on the "New Routemaster". The big hole at the back might have something to do with it though.

That's not what you said, you said they wouldn't be useable.

With the number of drive-in, drive-out bus stations, you don't want the wheelchair ramp on a middle door.