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New railcard

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island

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It would be good, but the chances of it happening are limited. There was research done a few years ago but it was duly ignored.
 

jon0844

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If the assumption is that the railway is a business out to make as much money as possible (which seems to be true) then such cards won't ever happen as there's a risk people who have no choice but to travel by train may dare to use it.

For leisure travellers, the industry could argue that advance tickets are better anyway - thus ensuring most people who make plans at the last second are always forced to pay top dollar.

To be honest, I'm surprised the Network Railcard isn't axed and ATOC doesn't decide one day to drastically reduce the Gold Card benefits (actually, they did when they increased the first class supplement from £2 to £5, so the next thing will be the minimum fare like the Network Railcard).

As time goes on, I expect we'll get even fewer benefits than something vaguely resembling the offerings abroad where it's clear the motivation is to get people off the roads.

I also hoped that when we eventually get smart ticketing, regular users may be able to get a range of loyalty rewards (discounted travel, cashback or whatever) but that also seems very unlikely.
 

bb21

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I am pretty sure that some TOCs did once offer unlimited use of their own 'network' at weekends (beyond the validity of your season ticket) and I believe some also allowed a partner to come along free too. But that obviously required the purchase of annual season ticket - which is cash in the bank for a TOC.

Midland Mainline allowed unlimited use at weekends over the whole of their network if that's what you had in mind.
 

shambles

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So National Rail are currently trialing a new railcard from September 5th 2011!!
Much Like other railcards it entitles you to 1/3 off rail fares. You are issued one Railcard between Two People (For use of those Two people, together, Only). Available Online or at your local participating station. See Details http://www.twotogether-railcard.co.uk Only available to residents who live in the West Midlands!
 

wintonian

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So National Rail are currently trialing a new railcard from September 5th 2011!!
Much Like other railcards it entitles you to 1/3 off rail fares. You are issued one Railcard between Two People (For use of those Two people, together, Only). Available Online or at your local participating station. See Details http://www.twotogether-railcard.co.uk Only available to residents who live in the West Midlands!

Intresting but I assume us independent travelrs are left out in the cold again.

Mind you I am sure all line rover might be able to find someone here to share with if there is a first class version. :lol:
 

All Line Rover

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Mind you I am sure all line rover might be able to find someone here to share with if there is a first class version. :lol:

I always travel independently (except when we travel as a family and, of course, use a Family Railcard). I'd have no use for a "Two Together" Railcard.
 

matt

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Please use the existing topic
 

yorkie

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Indeed, no need for more than one topic on this. I've merged the topics together :)
 

bnm

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Is it a case that these new railcards are available to anyone, as long as they get themselves to a station in the trial area or buy online when the website goes live?

I see nothing in 'The Manual' directing retail staff to ask for proof of residence in the trial area.
 

John @ home

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Is it a case that these new railcards are available to anyone, as long as they get themselves to a station in the trial area or buy online when the website goes live?

I see nothing in 'The Manual' directing retail staff to ask for proof of residence in the trial area.
If buying online, 'The Manual' states:
Customers will be asked to enter their delivery address postcode and this will be validated against the trial postcode areas.

If buying at a station, these FAQs are relevant:
Do both named holders have to live within the named postcodes?
Only the First cardholder should live within trial postcode areas.

How will a ticket office be able to validate the address on the application in order to issue?
The First Cardholder should live within the trial area postcodes but ticket offices do not need to check the validity of the address on the application form. The marketing material states that people should live within the trial area.
'should' is an interesting word. Its use on a matter of validity is uncommon.
 
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Scotrail84

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Groupsave can be abused, as you could just get people to go to a TVM (or ticket window) and buy four tickets for the price of two, even though you're not travelling together at all. Imagine me queuing up and saying to the couple behind 'want to pretend you're with me?' and splitting the savings. We may consequently travel together on the first 'leg' but almost certainly not back together.


You cannae do that as you only get 2 tickets. 1 out and 1 rtn part. with group save 3 on 4 printed on it. You dinny get individual tickets anymore as it was easy to abuse the system as you pointed out.
 

John @ home

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You dinny get individual tickets anymore as it was easy to abuse the system as you pointed out.
The form of Groupsave available on EMT and ScotRail is issued on one pair of tickets and is can be used for journeys only where GS3 or GS4 Off-Peak Day Returns are available.

The more common form of Groupsave is available on any of c2c, Chiltern, FCC, FGW, LM, NXEA, Southeastern, Southern and SWT. It is available on both Off-Peak Day and Off-Peak fares and individual tickets continue to be issued for each passenger.
 

Greenback

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What do they do on ATW? I have often heard conductors selling group tickets, but I don't know how they are printed.
 

John @ home

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What do they do on ATW?
ATW don't participate in GroupSave. I have never found the ATW Small Groups ticket to be competitively priced (discount only 30%) or sufficiently flexible (day tickets only). For example, 4 of us travelled Cardiff - Tenby in June and chose FGW's GroupSave4 SVRs.

The Manual's description includes:
Children are permitted to travel on an adult ticket as part of the Group.
That suggests separate tickets are issued.
 

Greenback

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ATW don't participate in GroupSave. I have never found the ATW Small Groups ticket to be competitively priced (discount only 30%) or sufficiently flexible (day tickets only). For example, 4 of us travelled Cardiff - Tenby in June and chose FGW's GroupSave4 SVRs.

The Manual's description includes:That suggests separate tickets are issued.

They seem to be quite popular for day trips to Swansea and Cardiff. Conductors usually offer them without being asked, which is nice! More people are getting to know about them now, though.
 

All Line Rover

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If I understand correctly (after looking at the picture of the Railcard), will the two people who wish to use a Railcard need to provide a passport-sized photograph (each) when purchasing the Railcard, which will both be printed on the Railcard? (I hope this makes sense. :))

If so, will that prevent someone from saying to a friend (whose photo is not on the Railcard): "Why don't you come along with me tomorrow to [insert place here] and get 1/3 off the ticket?"

So the Railcard is basically being restricted to couples or very close friends who travel around a lot together? That's a very small market!
 

Greenback

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If I understand correctly (after looking at the picture of the Railcard), will the two people who wish to use a Railcard need to provide a passport-sized photograph (each) when purchasing the Railcard, which will both be printed on the Railcard? (I hope this makes sense. :))

If so, will that prevent someone from saying to a friend (whose photo is not on the Railcard): "Why don't you come along with me tomorrow to [insert place here] and get 1/3 off the ticket?"

So the Railcard is basically being restricted to couples or very close friends who travel around a lot together? That's a very small market!

Yes indeed. That is why I am concerned that the trial will fail as not enough people will want to buy the card. Then ATOC cna say that there is no market for a national railcard at all.
 

Scotrail84

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Yes indeed. That is why I am concerned that the trial will fail as not enough people will want to buy the card. Then ATOC cna say that there is no market for a national railcard at all.



Yes i cant see this taking off at all. Actually seems like a stupid idea when you think about it.
 

All Line Rover

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Yes indeed. That is why I am concerned that the trial will fail as not enough people will want to buy the card. Then ATOC cna say that there is no market for a national railcard at all.

I doubt that that would be a valid excuse, as they are not introducing a National Railcard.

Why are people calling this new Railcard a "National Railcard"!? :roll: According to that criteria, we already have a "National Railcard". It's called the Family Railcard, that is restricted to groups of at least 1 adult and 1 child! Both the Family Railcard and Two Together Railcard are "National Railcards" because everyone is eligible for one providing they bring a child with them, or (now) another person! :roll:

I define a proper "National Railcard" as a Railcard that every type of traveller is eligible for (including single travellers). Until ATOC introduce such a Railcard, they can't claim that there is no demand for one.
 

WillPS

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If only we had a system designed to effectively compete with personal transport by always offering ahead-of-curve capacity, with railcards and generally low fares to sweeten the deal.

You know, sort of, exactly like the rest of Europe.

Instead we have a fleet of insufficient (often completely life-expired) trains which is not growing anywhere near fast enough to even vaguely keep up with the growth in demand and also the highest rail fares across the continent. But hey, it's a free lunch for the handful of banks and bus companies who coincidentally donate large sums of money to the political parties who mastermind this woefully inefficient system.
 

John @ home

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will the two people who wish to use a Railcard need to provide a passport-sized photograph (each) when purchasing the Railcard
Yes.
which will both be printed on the Railcard?
Possibly, for the on-line version. For the version issued at a station, the Photocard (containing 2 photos) will be separate from the Railcard.
That's a very small market!
That is why I am concerned that the trial will fail as not enough people will want to buy the card.
i cant see this taking off at all.
My expectation is that ATOC will have a target range for sales of this Railcard. If sales fall below the range, they may withdraw the card if their admin costs exceed the additional revenue. If sales exceed the range, they may withdraw the card if they suspect revenue abstraction.

I do believe that there is a significant market for leisure travel by two adults aged 26-59 travelling together without children. To this extent, my view is closer to Greenback than to All Line Rover and Scotrail84.

I accept that there is a need for morning peak restrictions. There would be significant abstraction if this were not in place. For example, two colleagues from Leeds attending a meeting in London at short notice would cover the Railcard cost and save their company £134.50 net if there were no Peak restriction.

But I see a number of faults with Railcard discounted tickets are not valid for travel between 04:30 – 09:30 Monday to Friday (except Public Holidays). Linking availability to that of the CDR or SVR fare would be better.
 
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island

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Groupsave can be abused, as you could just get people to go to a TVM (or ticket window) and buy four tickets for the price of two, even though you're not travelling together at all. Imagine me queuing up and saying to the couple behind 'want to pretend you're with me?' and splitting the savings. We may consequently travel together on the first 'leg' but almost certainly not back together.


You cannae do that as you only get 2 tickets. 1 out and 1 rtn part. with group save 3 on 4 printed on it. You dinny get individual tickets anymore as it was easy to abuse the system as you pointed out.

That, and TVMs don't sell groupsaves.
 

Greenback

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Mrs Greenback and I would certainly find the railcard useful. This year we have udnertaken plenty of journeys together, visitng London, Southampton, Cardiff, Bristol, Leeds, York, Scarborough and Carlisle. Once we had bought the railcard, we would be tempted to make more leisure trips, increasing revenue for the railway. Wjtjer this additional revenue would work out as more than the money we had saved by using the card is debatable, as we never drive for long distance journeys and because of work the extra trips we would make would be shorter distance ones (though perhaps not necessarily that much cheaper of course!).

That said, I have concernes because I think it would be preferable to have a proper national railcard that could be used off peak by individuals, who could take others with them, like the Network Card. I would alos prefer a much simpler fares system like that in the Netherlands, and I don't realistically expect to get either of those things very soon, but I do think there will be elss chance of achieving the former if this scheme is deemed a failure.
 

exile

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We really need a "carload" railcard - available for a named group of up to 5 travelling together with a sliding scale of discounts. That would recognise what the real competitor to trains is. Could be available weekends only perhaps.
 

Greenback

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We really need a "carload" railcard - available for a named group of up to 5 travelling together with a sliding scale of discounts. That would recognise what the real competitor to trains is. Could be available weekends only perhaps.

You could say that the F&F railcard does that. It's one of the reasons that BR introdued the railcard in the 1970's, ot make rail travel more competitive for family trips.

Of course, the necessity for a child to travel is a bit of a fdrawback, but the original 50% discount was pretty good, with kids going for 50p, or was it a pound?!

The various group tickets available also help, but I would still prefer for the Network Railcard to be extended to cover the whoel country.
 

Flamingo

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You could say that the F&F railcard does that. It's one of the reasons that BR introdued the railcard in the 1970's, ot make rail travel more competitive for family trips.

Of course, the necessity for a child to travel is a bit of a fdrawback, but the original 50% discount was pretty good, with kids going for 50p, or was it a pound?!

The various group tickets available also help, but I would still prefer for the Network Railcard to be extended to cover the whoel country.

I had two yesterday -
"This is a family and friends railcard, where is the child?"
"We're friends, that counts"
"Wrong" - ching ching!
 
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