New Overground line names progress?

[PeterC]

Liberty is woke and post-modernist?

Who knew?

Woke clearly goes back a long way as the Liberty of Havering's charter was granted in 1465.

 

[Goldfish62]

Woke clearly goes back a long way as the Liberty of Havering's charter was granted in 1465.

Given that someone recently described nuclear fusion as woke it clearly goes back to the Big Bang.

 

[Dore & Totley]

Clearly everything is woke these days. Even calling things woke is woke now.

 

[Class15]

To the vast majority its only ever been called Elizabeth Line, only industry folk and enthusiasts probably know the Crossrail name.

I’ve always heard it as ‘Lizzy line’

 

[Peter Sarf]

I’ve always heard it as ‘Lizzy line’

I hear it referred to as "the Lizzy".
The Vic has been the Victoria line for as long as I can remember.
There will always be nicknames - rest assured .

 

[Goldfish62]

I hear it referred to as "the Lizzy".
The Vic has been the Victoria line for as long as I can remember.
There will always be nicknames - rest assured .

Lizzy, Picc, Vic, Hot & Cold, the Drain, the Met, etc.

 

[Class15]

I hear it referred to as "the Lizzy".
The Vic has been the Victoria line for as long as I can remember.
There will always be nicknames - rest assured .

Yes - however I doubt North London line will survive sadly

Hopefully a future mayor decides that some of the names are dated and were virtue signalling, and change them to more geographical and useful names. For example, if the Northern line is split up, that would open the door to ‘North London line’.

 

[Wolfie]

Yes - however I doubt North London line will survive sadly

Hopefully a future mayor decides that some of the names are dated and were virtue signalling, and change them to more geographical and useful names. For example, if the Northern line is split up, that would open the door to ‘North London line’.

Renaming a line involves costs. A future mayor choosing to change likely well; established names for political reasons would be deplorable (and could in some cases lead to a personal surcharge). Some people really need to get over it - or else perhaps the Elizabeth line should be renamed first for exactly the reasons that you cite?

 

[Class15]

Renaming a line involves costs. A future mayor choosing to change likely well; established names for political reasons would be deplorable (and could in some cases lead to a personal surcharge). Some people really need to get over it - or else perhaps the Elizabeth line should be renamed first for exactly the reasons that you cite?

The Northern, Piccadilly and Hammersmith & City lines have all had rebranding.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Your source for that?

 

[Class15]

Your source for that?

You can search it up but the northern line was an amalgamation of two tube lines, so was the Piccadilly, and the H&C was split off the Met in 1990.

Indeed, the Circle was also split off the District and Met lines, and the East London line has changed identity many times, becoming part of the Met, then becoming its own line, then becoming part of the Overground, and now the ‘Windrush line’ (which, by the way, is just about the only one of the new names that I agree with).

 

[Wolfie]

The Northern, Piccadilly and Hammersmith & City lines have all had rebranding.

Not within the lifetimes of many people on here. The last, l believe, was over 30 years ago and was done for sound operational reasons.

 

[Richardr]

You can search it up but the northern line was an amalgamation of two tube lines, so was the Piccadilly, and the H&C was split off the Met in 1990.

So not a rebranding, but a change in the lines. No doubt if in the future lines are split or amalgamated a change in name will often make sense. That is different froma rebranding.

 

[StephenHunter]

So not a rebranding, but a change in the lines. No doubt if in the future lines are split or amalgamated a change in name will often make sense. That is different froma rebranding.

The East London largely operated as a separate line when it was purple-coloured though.

 

[Wolfie]

The East London largely operated as a separate line when it was purple-coloured though.

I suspect that it was under the same management as it was short and used the same rolling stock. I wonder if the split was early preparation for the Overground?

 

[stevieinselby]

Yes - however I doubt North London line will survive sadly

Hopefully a future mayor decides that some of the names are dated and were virtue signalling, and change them to more geographical and useful names. For example, if the Northern line is split up, that would open the door to ‘North London line’.

I wonder how many of the people who have been howling in protest at the cost of this rebranding would turn a blind eye to the cost of that rebranding, even though this one serves a useful functional purpose but that almost certainly wouldn't...

 

[Wolfie]

I wonder how many of the people who have been howling in protest at the cost of this rebranding would turn a blind eye to the cost of that rebranding, even though this one serves a useful functional purpose but that almost certainly wouldn't...

Where's the like button when you need it! I suspect probably a majority.

 

[Meerkat]

I wonder how many of the people who have been howling in protest at the cost of this rebranding would turn a blind eye to the cost of that rebranding, even though this one serves a useful functional purpose but that almost certainly wouldn't...

Probably the same as if they had been given patriotic names and then were renamed to the current ones.

 

[Wolfie]

Probably the same as if they had been given patriotic names and then were renamed to the current ones.

Not so sure - never seen anyone seriously suggest a Lizzy line renaming.

 

[StephenHunter]

Not so sure - never seen anyone seriously suggest a Lizzy line renaming.

Even if it was Boris Johnson's idea.

 

[thenorthern]

In regards to the names of the line being "woke" I think part of the problem is that anything Sadiq Khan does is seen as "woke".

Some of the names do seem a bit obscure though with only a little connection to the area and don't really give a description of what the line actually is what it actually serves. From a personal view though.

• Lionesses Line, apparently named because it serves Wembley where the Lionesses won Euro 2022 however it's not a brilliant description of the line as it doesn't mention it runs to Watford. Given the England men's team famously won the World Cup at Wembley in 1966 a name like the "champions line" or the "football champions line" would have been better. Also as the Lionesses win is still relatively recent I kind of think it's a bit too early to name a line after them.
• Liberty Line, to me is the worst of them as it has no meaning or real connection to the area. It sounds a bit like the station naming on the Pyongyang Metro if I am being honest.
• Mildmay Line, is probably not the best name as it doesn't actually serve Mildmay Hospital or run anywhere near it although strangely the Windrush Line does run very close to the hospital. Also Mildmay Hospital isn't very well known so it does seem like it was chosen because TfL wanted an LGBT name.
• Windrush Line, I can understand the link with this as it does serve areas connected with the Windrush generation.
• Suffragette Line, not sure why this name was chosen as the Suffragettes were a national thing not just people from East London. Also the Suffragettes if anything I would associate with Greater Manchester more than anywhere else. It doesn't really give a description of where the line actually serves.
• Weaver Line, fair point about weaving and textiles being connected to the East End of London. However the line serves a lot more than East London.

I must admit I am not keen on the Elizebeth Line name either as Crossrail seemed a better description of what the line actually serves.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

In regards to the names of the line being "woke" I think part of the problem is that anything Sadiq Khan does is seen as "woke".

Some of the names do seem a bit obscure though with only a little connection to the area and don't really give a description of what the line actually is what it actually serves. From a personal view though.

• Lionesses Line, apparently named because it serves Wembley where the Lionesses won Euro 2022 however it's not a brilliant description of the line as it doesn't mention it runs to Watford. Given the England men's team famously won the World Cup at Wembley in 1966 a name like the "champions line" or the "football champions line" would have been better. Also as the Lionesses win is still relatively recent I kind of think it's a bit too early to name a line after them.
• Liberty Line, to me is the worst of them as it has no meaning or real connection to the area. It sounds a bit like the station naming on the Pyongyang Metro if I am being honest.
• Mildmay Line, is probably not the best name as it doesn't actually serve Mildmay Hospital or run anywhere near it although strangely the Windrush Line does run very close to the hospital. Also Mildmay Hospital isn't very well known so it does seem like it was chosen because TfL wanted an LGBT name.
• Windrush Line, I can understand the link with this as it does serve areas connected with the Windrush generation.
• Suffragette Line, not sure why this name was chosen as the Suffragettes were a national thing not just people from East London. Also the Suffragettes if anything I would associate with Greater Manchester more than anywhere else. It doesn't really give a description of where the line actually serves.
• Weaver Line, fair point about weaving and textiles being connected to the East End of London. However the line serves a lot more than East London.

I must admit I am not keen on the Elizebeth Line name either as Crossrail seemed a better description of what the line actually serves.

I think the idea of it being woke stems from the distinct focus on names with links to minority social groups and movements, such as the Caribbean Black community, LGBT+ community and women/feminism for Windrush, Mildmay and Lioness/Suffragette respectively, which is why some have considered it a too obviously deliberate/unsubtle attempt to be seen as progressive and thus called the practice virtue signalling.

I don’t exactly disagree, but being in London the past few days, I have to say the wayfinding seems much clearer and easier at stations with the individual line branding than those still with just “Overground.”

Some are half and half still. Stratford has Mildmay Line branding on the designated platforms but still just “Overground” all over the rest of the station.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Some of the names do seem a bit obscure though with only a little connection to the area

• Liberty Line, to me is the worst of them as it has no meaning or real connection to the area. I

The name has connections to the area going back five and a half centuries - the charter of the Liberty of Havering was granted in 1465, during the reign of King Edward IV.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Dec 2024 ==

• Suffragette Line, not sure why this name was chosen as the Suffragettes were a national thing not just people from East London.

I agree the official connection is tenuous, (Barking was the home of Annie Huggett, the last surviving suffragette - she died in 1995 at the age of 103) but I can't help noticing that many suffragettes spent time at His Majesty's Pleasure near the other end of the line, at Holloway Prison.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Dec 2024 ==

• Mildmay Line, is probably not the best name as it doesn't actually serve Mildmay Hospital or run anywhere near it although strangely the Windrush Line does run very close to the hospital. Also Mildmay Hospital isn't very well known so it does seem like it was chosen because TfL wanted an LGBT name.

Again a little tenuous, but the hospital in Bethnal Green was set up as part of the work of the Mildmay Mission. The Mission was a charity set up by William Pennefather, the vicar of St Judes, Mildmay Park. Mildmay Park is on the Mildmay Line - indeed there used to be a station of that name, between Canonbury and Dalston - it closed in 1934.

 

[CapitalStar378]

In regards to the names of the line being "woke" I think part of the problem is that anything Sadiq Khan does is seen as "woke".

Some of the names do seem a bit obscure though with only a little connection to the area and don't really give a description of what the line actually is what it actually serves. From a personal view though.

• Lionesses Line, apparently named because it serves Wembley where the Lionesses won Euro 2022 however it's not a brilliant description of the line as it doesn't mention it runs to Watford. Given the England men's team famously won the World Cup at Wembley in 1966 a name like the "champions line" or the "football champions line" would have been better. Also as the Lionesses win is still relatively recent I kind of think it's a bit too early to name a line after them.
• Liberty Line, to me is the worst of them as it has no meaning or real connection to the area. It sounds a bit like the station naming on the Pyongyang Metro if I am being honest.
• Mildmay Line, is probably not the best name as it doesn't actually serve Mildmay Hospital or run anywhere near it although strangely the Windrush Line does run very close to the hospital. Also Mildmay Hospital isn't very well known so it does seem like it was chosen because TfL wanted an LGBT name.
• Windrush Line, I can understand the link with this as it does serve areas connected with the Windrush generation.
• Suffragette Line, not sure why this name was chosen as the Suffragettes were a national thing not just people from East London. Also the Suffragettes if anything I would associate with Greater Manchester more than anywhere else. It doesn't really give a description of where the line actually serves.
• Weaver Line, fair point about weaving and textiles being connected to the East End of London. However the line serves a lot more than East London.

I must admit I am not keen on the Elizebeth Line name either as Crossrail seemed a better description of what the line actually serves.

I’m summing your assertion that Mildmay is a LGBT name is an error and that you‘re not, as it seems, suggesting that HIV and AIDS are LGBT illnesses.

 

[thenorthern]

I’m summing your assertion that Mildmay is a LGBT name is an error and that you‘re not, as it seems, suggesting that HIV and AIDS are LGBT illnesses.

TFL's own website mentions this.

It a valued and respected place for London’s LGBTQ+ communities. https://madeby.tfl.gov.uk/2024/02/15/overground_line_names/?intcmp=75213

 

[StephenHunter]

I’m summing your assertion that Mildmay is a LGBT name is an error and that you‘re not, as it seems, suggesting that HIV and AIDS are LGBT illnesses.

It disproportionately affects them and the view of it as a "gay plague" contributed to homophobia in the 1980s.

I would imagine nearly every LGBT person lost someone to AIDS.

 

[Cowley]

We did 677 posts worth of discussion on the actual names which is all here:

London Overground line names announced

The new names for the six London Overground lines have been announced by the Mayor of London. They will all appear on the Underground map as parallel lines but on different colours, replacing the swathe of orange that currently appears. The new names are: Lioness - Euston to Watford Junction...

www.railforums.co.uk

This thread in the infrastructure section is to discuss the changes as the new signage etc goes up, so let’s stick to that from here please.

Ta

 

[thenorthern]

Looking at the web and social media it does seem a bit hit and miss with name usage. National Rail seems to not use the new line names just using the standard "between London Euston and Watford Junction" when describing disruption. The BBC however seems to be using the new line names in travel reports.

I suppose it will be interesting to see how the names stick. I regularly hear people say "Granada" or "Yorkshire" when talking about ITV1 even though the names were phased out 22 years ago. While around the same time BT Cellnet was named O2 although I never hear people say BT Cellnet anymore.

 

[Deepgreen]

... which makes me wonder how vinyl meets the fire requirements which caused vitreous enamel to be used in the first place.

VE wasn't originally used owing to its fire-resistant properties, but simply because of its robustness and longevity. VE use dates from long before fire safety was a high priority on the Underground.

 

[StephenHunter]

Looking at the web and social media it does seem a bit hit and miss with name usage. National Rail seems to not use the new line names just using the standard "between London Euston and Watford Junction" when describing disruption. The BBC however seems to be using the new line names in travel reports.

I suppose it will be interesting to see how the names stick. I regularly hear people say "Granada" or "Yorkshire" when talking about ITV1 even though the names were phased out 22 years ago. While around the same time BT Cellnet was named O2 although I never hear people say BT Cellnet anymore.

Granada is still the name of the ITV region for NW England, with the local news being Granada Reports.

When will stickers be added to line diagrams at stations? Some of the Jubilee line ones still have "East London" on!