New Overground line names progress?

[BeijingDave]

I would bet good money on londoners and people from the counties that surround it use the infrastructure way more than any tourists will. If they dont like the lines having names then tough titty

Yes, but consumption by tourists is an export (X) which boosts GDP (C+I+G+X-M).

A Qatari or Japanese tourist can choose Paris, London or New York for their summer shopping and sightseeing trip. A confluence of factors including ease of getting around will drive them to one or another.

You can say 'tough titty' all you want, but being from Blackpool you of all people should understand how important tourism spending is.

*And anyway, I already acknowledged that tradition can trump ease of use.

 

[ijmad]

I don't think line names are particularly helpful for tourists if I'm honest. Perhaps better than it all just being called Overground, but a fair few times I've seen foreigners struggle to pronounce names like 'Piccadilly'.

Numbers or letters are much easier, nearly every major city in Europe and North America uses them.

It's shame they didn't pick names for the London Overground lines that had unique starting letters, at least that wouldn't add to the problem.

 

[stuu]

Yes, but consumption by tourists is an export (X) which boosts GDP (C+I+G+X-M).

A Qatari or Japanese tourist can choose Paris, London or New York for their summer shopping and sightseeing trip. A confluence of factors including ease of getting around will drive them to one or another.

You can say 'tough titty' all you want, but being from Blackpool you of all people should understand how important tourism spending is.

*And anyway, I already acknowledged that tradition can trump ease of use.

Which lines of the overground are any well-heeled visitors likely to use? The delights of Chingford and Penge are unlikely to attract them. They are far more likely to not use public transport at all. Even for average earning tourists the overground is mostly irrelevant, unless they book some far flung Airbnb or Travelodge or something.

 

[bluegoblin7]

You’ve hit the nail on the head: “some far flung…Travelodge”. A lot of tourists are staying further out of the centre, and this isn’t a particularly new phenomenon either. I know several people who have stayed in Walthamstow as a budget option for some time now.

 

[Mike99]

There's now 500 odd posts and on this occasion I haven't read them all. But, I just put into the TFL journey finder Epping to Canonbury?, and it offered me Central line to Mile End, District Line to Whitechapel, and then Windrush Line to Canonbury. First time I've seen that used.

 

[Via Bank]

The NLL/Mildmay line sees many more tourists than you might think. Camden Market, Hampstead Heath, Hackney Wick, Stratford, Kew Gardens… this combined with an increase in "off the beaten track" tourism. Yes it might not be the families of 5 going on a once-in-a-lifetime tour of Zone 1, but you see a lot of UK and international visitors everywhere these days.

 

[Wolfie]

Which lines of the overground are any well-heeled visitors likely to use? The delights of Chingford and Penge are unlikely to attract them. They are far more likely to not use public transport at all. Even for average earning tourists the overground is mostly irrelevant, unless they book some far flung Airbnb or Travelodge or something.

An awful lot of Asian in particular tourists use the Mildmay line to get to the Burberry outlet in Hackney (nearest station Hackney Central). The London Outlet centre (Lioness line to Wembley Central) is also firmly on tourist shopping minds.

 

[BeijingDave]

An awful lot of Asian in particular tourists use the Mildmay line to get to the Burberry outlet in Hackney (nearest station Hackney Central). The London Outlet centre (Lioness line to Wembley Central) is also firmly on tourist shopping minds.

Outlet shopping in the UK is very popular with East Asian families due to the very high luxury goods and sales taxes prevalent there (especially China). They don't need to be well-heeled, just middle class. And they do indeed stay outside Zone 1, given the high price of central hotels.

They generally come for a week, spend quite a bit of money and don't cause much trouble (some communication issues aside). I'd say we want them coming, on balance.

But don't expect an East Asian to find Mildmay easy to pronounce. The 'ld' sound isn't even possible in Mandarin.

 

[Blackpool boy]

Yes, but consumption by tourists is an export (X) which boosts GDP (C+I+G+X-M).

A Qatari or Japanese tourist can choose Paris, London or New York for their summer shopping and sightseeing trip. A confluence of factors including ease of getting around will drive them to one or another.

You can say 'tough titty' all you want, but being from Blackpool you of all people should understand how important tourism spending is.

*And anyway, I already acknowledged that tradition can trump ease of use.

I do understand the importance of tourism but very few will be using the overground compared to the amount of regular commuters and leisure travellers from london and the whole of the south east.

Names of lines is much easier for the average joe whether they are from Timbuktu or Tokyo to understand, especially as the underground network already has named lines then adding numbered lines to the system just adds confusion to those poor tourists who spend thousands coming to this country that you are on about

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

An awful lot of Asian in particular tourists use the Mildmay line to get to the Burberry outlet in Hackney (nearest station Hackney Central). The London Outlet centre (Lioness line to Wembley Central) is also firmly on tourist shopping minds.

As is Bicester village remember - I don't see anyone calling for the line out of Marylebone to be have line numbers just to appease a very few people

 

[Wolfie]

Outlet shopping in the UK is very popular with East Asian families due to the very high luxury goods and sales taxes prevalent there (especially China). They don't need to be well-heeled, just middle class. And they do indeed stay outside Zone 1, given the high price of central hotels.

They generally come for a week, spend quite a bit of money and don't cause much trouble (some communication issues aside). I'd say we want them coming, on balance.

But don't expect an East Asian to find Mildmay easy to pronounce. The 'ld' sound isn't even possible in Mandarin.

Tell me about it! One of my best friends is ethnic Chinese, born in Malaysia, grew up speaking Cantonese and Malay. One of my former staff, again ethnic Chinese, who l still socialise with regularly was born in Hong Kong. The latter isn't too bad when it comes to the speech thing that you mention, the former though....

 

[bicbasher]

Which lines of the overground are any well-heeled visitors likely to use? The delights of Chingford and Penge are unlikely to attract them. They are far more likely to not use public transport at all. Even for average earning tourists the overground is mostly irrelevant, unless they book some far flung Airbnb or Travelodge or something.

Forest Hill is very busy with tourists and school party traffic as visitor numbers to the Horniman Museum and Gardens have risen substantially risen since the ELL extension opened. Before then, it was more of a local secret, but is always busy now. That's the benefit of having a rail service on the tube map and going to more areas than previously.

 

[Wolfie]

As is Bicester village remember - I don't see anyone calling for the line out of Marylebone to be have line numbers just to appease a very few people

You won't catch me asking for that. I'm happy with the names, as you can see from my previous posts, but did recognise the validity of some of the points being made.

 

[AM9]

Tell me about it! One of my best friends is ethnic Chinese, born in Malaysia, grew up speaking Cantonese and Malay. One of my former staff, again ethnic Chinese, who l still socialise with regularly was born in Hong Kong. The latter isn't too bad when it comes to the speech thing that you mention, the former though....

If they hear it spoken by english speakers, unless deliberately said with full enunciation, (not that frequent on rail PAs) it will tend to sound like 'my-ord-may'.

 

[Sunil_P]

If they hear it spoken by english speakers, unless deliberately said with full enunciation, (not that frequent on rail PAs) it will tend to sound like 'my-ord-may'.

You are useress Arec Bardwin!

 

[Wolfie]

Hmm.... Given that there is at least one member from HK on here we should perhaps stop the linguistics pronunciation thing...

 

[Blackpool boy]

You won't catch me asking for that. I'm happy with the names, as you can see from my previous posts, but did recognise the validity of some of the points being made.

oh fully agree with you about it all - seems those against anything on the railway here will always pull out the very few niche cases of who we may offend/not be able to accpomodate

 

[AM9]

You are useress Arec Bardwin!

Try this (youtube clip of a person pronouncing 'mildmay'):

- it is being spoken with full enunciation. Then consider how it would sound with background noise, a non-perfect PA system and a person who isn't as clear spoken in a secondary role as an announcer, (driver, platform staff, even a station announcer).*

*This is not a judgement of railway staff's vocal skills, - just an acknowledgement that not all those pressed to inform the public at times, speak as well as an online demonstration of how to pronounce words and names.

 

[Goldfish62]

oh fully agree with you about it all - seems those against anything on the railway here will always pull out the very few niche cases of who we may offend/not be able to accpomodate

I think that's usually the case with any topic on these forums.

 

[Wolfie]

I think that's usually the case with any topic on these forums.

Some people are so change-averse that l sometimes think that Stephenson's Rocket would still be running if they had their way.

 

[bicbasher]

One line diagram done on the Forest Hill concourse.

 

[duffield]

Some people are so change-averse that l sometimes think that Stephenson's Rocket would still be running if they had their way.

No, they'd have had it banned because it would frighten the horses.

 

[StephenHunter]

Forest Hill is very busy with tourists and school party traffic as visitor numbers to the Horniman Museum and Gardens have risen substantially risen since the ELL extension opened. Before then, it was more of a local secret, but is always busy now. That's the benefit of having a rail service on the tube map and going to more areas than previously.

I went there on a school trip in the 2000s...

Anyway, I've not seen any stickers added to the District line diagrams.

 

[boiledbeans2]

[...]
The carriage displays now show where the trains are calling at. I'm pretty sure that's new, right? Didn't see it before the renamings.
[...]

[...]

My guess is that those units modified with the new line PIS also get the stations displayed on the LEDs now.

Please remind me, what was displayed on the 2 lines of the PIS on the outside before the update?

 

[bicbasher]

Please remind me, what was displayed on the 2 lines of the PIS on the outside before the update?

Top line is the destination.
Bottom line was blank.

 

[Class15]

Top line is the destination.
Bottom line was blank.

Yep, this is a very helpful update.

 

[BeijingDave]

oh fully agree with you about it all - seems those against anything on the railway here will always pull out the very few niche cases of who we may offend/not be able to accpomodate

That's not my point (avoiding offence) at all, as you well know.

I even acknowledged that tradition trumps ease of pronunciation.

I would far rather retain names like 'Victoria' than call it Line 2.

However, we should think carefully about naming things that don't really need naming. Naming lots of stuff downgrades the stuff that is named (think about trains - The Master Cutler carried some kudos and sentimentality because it was unique). Sometimes a system of numbers works better for everyone. I think this would have been one such case.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Nov 2024 ==

But then again, you might not understand foreign tourists since your moribund local economy only attracts Glaswegians and lager-swilling stag parties.

 

[I'm here now]

Which lines of the overground are any well-heeled visitors likely to use? The delights of Chingford and Penge are unlikely to attract them. They are far more likely to not use public transport at all. Even for average earning tourists the overground is mostly irrelevant, unless they book some far flung Airbnb or Travelodge or something.

East London line if they’re off to Shoreditch or some other trendy place. It’s also a bit more akin to the underground with the frequency.

 

[Blackpool boy]

But then again, you might not understand foreign tourists since your moribund local economy only attracts Glaswegians and lager-swilling stag parties.

Well that's a nice way to slag off a town and the people who visit it.

I do know tourism - I work for a large international Travel group that deals with both outgoing and incoming tourists so i really do understand foregn tourists as i deal with them every day.

 

[Goldfish62]

Some people are so change-averse that l sometimes think that Stephenson's Rocket would still be running if they had their way.

Stephenson's Rocket and horse buses.

 

[Blackpool boy]

Stephenson's Rocket and horse buses.

They can use the horse and traps that ply their trade along the seafront if they want