New Overground line names progress?

[paninaro]

The whole naming lines is a nonsense, it would have been far easier, cleaner and simpler to use Line 1, Line 2 etc.

I think that depends on the individual. I find a name/word easier to remember than a number. "Hmmm, was it 3 or 4?"

 

[davews]

The problem in this case is the names chosen. If you don't live in that part of London you will probably have never heard of Mildmay and is a word that doesn't flow off your lips. Same for most of the other names. Names are fine, and in the course of time we will get used to where they flow, just as with the existing line, but maybe they should be the Tom, Dick and Harry lines rather than these obscure ones.

 

[thomalex]

The whole naming lines is a nonsense, it would have been far easier, cleaner and simpler to use Line 1, Line 2 etc. Easier to remember, easier to give tourists directions, no issues with mispronunciation, would clearly separate over ground routes from under ground routes, and so on...

I think that depends on the individual. I find a name/word easier to remember than a number. "Hmmm, was it 3 or 4?"

Certainly I can see the argument that lines are more memorable with names, however I do think that comes at the expense of a rather confusing relationship with the Overground brand. It's not clear which named lines are Overground or not, and the Overground being a distinct mode with it's own characteristics I feel it's important that this is clearly called out from the Underground network.

I would have much preferred to keep the strong Overground brand, the orange lines, and to have called the lines Overground A line, Overground B line etc. These letters could have then been labelled next to the lines on the map.

 

[vuzzeho]

Mildmay and Windrush up at Highbury and Islington today

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

Thinking further about it, using line numbers would actually be a *terrible* idea given you'd be mixing them in with platform numbers and departure times, particularly at interchange stations with different numbered lines. "Platform 5 for the 0745 line 6 service to x, Platform 7 for the 0654 line 5 service to y "? Too many numbers mixed in meaning different things.

Using plain letters would also be bad because they can be too short to be distinct in announcements. You'd probably want to do something like use the NATO/Police type alphabet, so lines A, B, C would be announced as Alpha, Bravo, Charlie. Or I suppose it might work reversed, call them the the A-line, B-line, C-line etc. (don't they do that in the US sometimes?)

Millions of people around the world travel fine with numbered or lettered train routes on lettered or numbered platforms (and don't get me started with eastern European countries, where platforms and tracks have different numberings!).

This is more of a thing of what people are used to. London is using line names, which I personally find strange, but if that's what's already being used, then it's probably fine to stick with it.

 

[GJMarshy]

As long as they don't go putting the line colours on there tube map and keep the Overground orange all is good in the world!

 

[CapitalStar378]

As long as they don't go putting the line colours on there tube map and keep the Overground orange all is good in the world!

One of the main factors behind the change is the tangle of orange on the tube map, the new colours will be featured.

 

[Horizon22]

When the London mayor goes begging to the national government for money to keep the transport system running, non-Londoners have every right to scrutinise how the London mayor is spending the money that he has.

This is somewhat irrelevant as London is the only major city expected to try and cover entirely its own costs without central government funding.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Sep 2024 ==

As long as they don't go putting the line colours on there tube map and keep the Overground orange all is good in the world!

There might be a difference in the Tube map and the London & SE rail map.

For instance on the Tube map the Elizabeth line is an “outline” purple but it is a solid purple on the latter map.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

As long as they don't go putting the line colours on there tube map and keep the Overground orange all is good in the world!

The new tube map with new colours is already avaliable.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/tube-map-with-the-new-lo-names.pdf

 

[Lockwood]

I was about to say how much more readable that is, with the orange knot untangled.

Makes it look like there are fewer overground routes, possibly from them not being a single dominating colour blob.

However... Scrolling around on the phone at a mid zoom level, it looked like there was an overground line to Moorgate. I know it is the station connector blob, but the way it continues at the same angle in the same /general/ style - two mostly straight lines with a white fill - looked like an extension.

 

[Goldfish62]

As long as they don't go putting the line colours on there tube map and keep the Overground orange all is good in the world!

Surely you're jesting?

 

[Lockwood]

Hmm... Something else from that map design.
The legend at the bottom has a heading showing London Overground, then some coloured lines with a name next to them. So as someone visiting London, I can look at that and know what lines are Overground: Liberty Line, Lioness Line, Mildmay Line, Suffragette Line, Weaver Line, Windrush Line, DLR, Elizabeth Line, and London Trams.

Well, Trams sounds like it isn't - that's going to be the trams, and DLR is that one you can sit and the front and drive.

But the Elizabeth Line is an Overground line isn't it.



Not the best layout there.

 

[michael8]

Hmm... Something else from that map design.
The legend at the bottom has a heading showing London Overground, then some coloured lines with a name next to them. So as someone visiting London, I can look at that and know what lines are Overground: Liberty Line, Lioness Line, Mildmay Line, Suffragette Line, Weaver Line, Windrush Line, DLR, Elizabeth Line, and London Trams.

Well, Trams sounds like it isn't - that's going to be the trams, and DLR is that one you can sit and the front and drive.

But the Elizabeth Line is an Overground line isn't it.



Not the best layout there.

I see exactly what you mean. However, it is correct - you have to look at the line spacing to see. It would have been better if the second column started with DLR, with the subsection of Overground being at the bottom of the column.

 

[GJMarshy]

Surely you're jesting?

I wish! The tube map already has an enormous colour palette. The more colours are introduced the more cluttered and unintuitive it becomes, it's all colour theory.

Orange worked as it understood that the majority of people using the overground are more likely to be locals than tourists, therefore having them different colours made little sense. This combined with the fact frequencies are lower than the tube and it can't be treated like one. The DLR remains all one colour for a similar reason. EL is the exception to the rule, since it runs at 24tph in the core, and is heavily used by out of towners. Thameslink is shown, but again, all one colour (dashed pink and white) to emphasise it's difference from the tube network.

The new map with the colouredOverground lines is a mess. Colour theory is applied very poorly. Whilst there might be some logic in giving the Overground lines names to show local identity, they're not all that useful in many other cases. If anything, it now looks less appealing to use the overground than ever (based on the map) as it now looks fragmented, rather than the all bright orange which made it stand out from the Tube, drawing your eye effectively to the orbital connections it provides.

 

[Lockwood]

Would it therefore be better to make the underground lines one colour? Indicates the higher frequency nature of it, central London connections, and makes it look more joined up.

Perhaps two colours, one for sub surface and one for deep tube so people know which is which

 

[SerialComplain]

And change the names to numbers

 

[GJMarshy]

Would it therefore be better to make the underground lines one colour? Indicates the higher frequency nature of it, central London connections, and makes it look more joined up.

Perhaps two colours, one for sub surface and one for deep tube so people know which is which

In most cases probably yes!

However the map is a design icon. Removing the colours used for over a century would definitely not go down well!

Another reason why adding pre colours just devalues the original design, as well as adding to visual clutter and therefore reducing it’s utility!

 

[jon0844]

Why are we assuming LO is for locals only?

But even if it is, the whole point is being able to identify the line for when being told about disruption or engineering work. Locals are going to learn the names even quicker so surely that makes it even better?

Tourists won't know anything and rely on the maps and route planners, and have no reason to learn colours or names long term - just be able to read signs.

 

[boiledbeans2]

However... Scrolling around on the phone at a mid zoom level, it looked like there was an overground line to Moorgate. I know it is the station connector blob, but the way it continues at the same angle in the same /general/ style - two mostly straight lines with a white fill - looked like an extension.

See also my earlier post #131:

New Overground line names progress?

Brings a whole new meaning to ‘taking a Liberty’ :rolleyes:

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Lockwood]

Fair, though I was seeing it as an extension of Weaver rather than a bit of Liberty. (I know it isn't Weaver colour, but when moving the map and quickly scanning you don't notice that stuff at first)

 

[ShadowKnight]

Regarding using letters and numbers for line names, SEPTA (the Philadelphia public transport operator) has proposed rebranding all the named rail services to letters and numbers and still keeping the existing names as a transitional element of the rebranding.

It is an interesting look as a a potential future for London overground/tfl rail services

 

[birchesgreen]

In most cases probably yes!

Sorry are you being serious?

 

[GJMarshy]

Sorry are you being serious?

See how I followed that up the line below.

 

[JJmoogle]

Why are we assuming LO is for locals only?

When it started a lot of the aims where about improving the state of transport through the outer zones without going through central, back then in my experience it was incredibly rare to get a tourist going anywhere except zone 1 and a couple of very select spots of zone 2 like Camden. The gentrification of areas like Hackney had begun but it wasn't quite in full swing yet.

The very idea of a non-local wanting to visit somewhere like Peckham or Dalston without a good reason would have been absurd. Things have certainly changed in that regard.

 

[jon0844]

I think tourists probably use the lines less given they're serving a lot of stations in outer boroughs, and obviously in years gone by the lines were quite run down and unsafe.

These days I don't think there's any reason a tourist wouldn't use the services if a route planner told them to.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It makes absolute sense to untangle the orange spider’s web into distinct lines. There’s a very good reason why every single metro system in the world has got distinct lines.

The cost is the same whether you call it the S1, the Mildmay Line, or the Nigel Farage Line.

Some of the new names are better than others and some are definitely a bit weak. But beyond that it’s all just wibble and frothing. With the way some people are going on you’d think they were renaming the Northern Line as the Karl Marx Line.

 

[Goldfish62]

It makes absolute sense to untangle the orange spider’s web into distinct lines. There’s a very good reason why every single metro system in the world has got distinct lines.

The cost is the same whether you call it the S1, the Mildmay Line, or the Nigel Farage Line.

Some of the new names are better than others and some are definitely a bit weak. But beyond that it’s all just wibble and frothing. With the way some people are going on you’d think they were renaming the Northern Line as the Karl Marx Line.

Perfectly put! All that needs saying really.

 

[Malaxa]

Some of the new names are better than others and some are definitely a bit weak. But beyond that it’s all just wibble and frothing. With the way some people are going on you’d think they were renaming the Northern Line as the Karl Marx Line.

Karl Marx has more connections with and relevance to the so-called Mildmay Line than does the distant and little-known Mildmay Hospital. I think TfL missed a trick there.

 

[Davester50]

Hmm... Something else from that map design.
The legend at the bottom has a heading showing London Overground, then some coloured lines with a name next to them. So as someone visiting London, I can look at that and know what lines are Overground: Liberty Line, Lioness Line, Mildmay Line, Suffragette Line, Weaver Line, Windrush Line, DLR, Elizabeth Line, and London Trams.

Well, Trams sounds like it isn't - that's going to be the trams, and DLR is that one you can sit and the front and drive.

But the Elizabeth Line is an Overground line isn't it.



Not the best layout there.

Congratulations to the Trams, DLR, Elizabeth, District and Cable Car becoming part of Overground.

 

[Recessio]

Congratulations to the Trams, DLR, Elizabeth, District and Cable Car becoming part of Overground.

I think they've settled now on two lines being anything TfL-operated that is "not Underground".

Although I agree maybe it should be differentiated somehow. There's definitely lots of different patterns available: the three lines of the cable car, the alternating dashed segments we saw for the Bank blockade, the bordered dashed segments used for NR services, the thin lines used when the Jubilee Extension was under construction in the 1990s - to name a few.