New Overground line names progress?

[bnc2018]

Before the Elizabeth line opened I was certain everyone would just carry on calling it Crossrail - it had been called that for over a decade, there were hoardings all over London with it written on, and there was even a couple of series of a TV show about Crossrail. But in the end it turned out that the vast, vast majority of people do not take any interest in such things, and for them calling it the Elizabeth line was completely natural. I suspect if I went around my office and asked everyone what it was called before, barely anyone would know.

I imaging this will be the case here too - the people who comment on a railway forum are probably not the most representative sample when it comes to knowing terms like the "North London Line". The majority of people don't have much interest in the historical vaguaries of railways, and if it says Mildmay on the platform, the maps, the announcements, (and most crucially) their phone maps, that is almost certainly what they will call it.

 

[Pete_uk]

Hope so.

The names they were given anyway

 

[Kite159]

Before the Elizabeth line opened I was certain everyone would just carry on calling it Crossrail - it had been called that for over a decade, there were hoardings all over London with it written on, and there was even a couple of series of a TV show about Crossrail. But in the end it turned out that the vast, vast majority of people do not take any interest in such things, and for them calling it the Elizabeth line was completely natural. I suspect if I went around my office and asked everyone what it was called before, barely anyone would know.

I imaging this will be the case here too - the people who comment on a railway forum are probably not the most representative sample when it comes to knowing terms like the "North London Line". The majority of people don't have much interest in the historical vaguaries of railways, and if it says Mildmay on the platform, the maps, the announcements, (and most crucially) their phone maps, that is almost certainly what they will call it.

The key difference is that the line opened to the public as the Elizabeth Line rather than opening all branded as Crossrail only to get changed after it had been opened.

A bit like a station being called one name during the planning stage to a different name when it gets opened. Like Water Eaton Parkway getting rebranded as Oxford Parkway & Bicester Town getting changed to Bicester Village etc.

 

[vuzzeho]

The key difference is that the line opened to the public as the Elizabeth Line rather than opening all branded as Crossrail only to get changed after it had been opened.

A bit like a station being called one name during the planning stage to a different name when it gets opened. Like Water Eaton Parkway getting rebranded as Oxford Parkway & Bicester Town getting changed to Bicester Village etc.

That's true, but to the general public, the lines have no name other than 'the Overground' - so the names TfL are introducing will be the first names they've heard of. Even if they've heard of the old names, it's been a very long time since these lines have had those names (and in some instances, they never had the name officially) so people will probably just naturally snap to whatever TfL says. Especially younger generations, of course.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I grew up following the arrival of LT’s ‘Fleet’ line and couldn’t fathom why it was renamed ‘Jubilee’ (it was neither planned, constructed or opened in 1977). Although not based in the SE, I’ve realised I still think of it as Fleet. Perhaps the Goblin et al will exist in the minds of travellers for a long time to come following the rebrand?

I recollect commuting at the time of the Fleet Line construction and passed my time waiting on L.T. stations reading the in house adverts for amusement (their world's resemblance to reality being very slim!). The buses part had just ordered a large number (over 2,600, I think) of double decks suitable for one person operation. Although their manufacturer had named the model 'Fleetline' the publicity was very keen to name them as "The Londoner'. I assumed at the time this was to avoid confusion with the the new tube, but now I'm not sure.
As the buses soon attracted opprobrium and continued in practice to be called 'Fleetlines' I wonder if that was possibly a motive for renaming the tube line.

 

[Buzby]

I wonder if that was possibly a motive for renaming the tube line.

Well, the Tories were involved (having just came into power) it’s a kind of royalism the Labour Party wouldn’t countenance. I was all for Fleet, it even made me take an interest in the river itself and how it was culverted out of existence! We know Crossrail isn’t the Tube, but how many notice? (As long as the doors open) the branding doesn’t help - but it’s the only Service that includes the word ‘Line’ within it. A strange tautology at best.

 

[michael8]

Before the Elizabeth line opened I was certain everyone would just carry on calling it Crossrail - it had been called that for over a decade, there were hoardings all over London with it written on, and there was even a couple of series of a TV show about Crossrail. But in the end it turned out that the vast, vast majority of people do not take any interest in such things, and for them calling it the Elizabeth line was completely natural. I suspect if I went around my office and asked everyone what it was called before, barely anyone would know.

I imaging this will be the case here too - the people who comment on a railway forum are probably not the most representative sample when it comes to knowing terms like the "North London Line". The majority of people don't have much interest in the historical vaguaries of railways, and if it says Mildmay on the platform, the maps, the announcements, (and most crucially) their phone maps, that is almost certainly what they will call it.

Interestingly, I too thought I would continue to call it Crossrail, as the Elizabeth line seemed a silly name and a mouthful. However, even I find myself more comfortable with Elizabeth line these days !

Likewise, I remember thinking in about 2000 that I would never change from VHS to DVD, and similarly in about 2005 that I would never get a laptop (Both of which did happen)

 

[edwin_m]

Before the Elizabeth line opened I was certain everyone would just carry on calling it Crossrail - it had been called that for over a decade, there were hoardings all over London with it written on, and there was even a couple of series of a TV show about Crossrail. But in the end it turned out that the vast, vast majority of people do not take any interest in such things, and for them calling it the Elizabeth line was completely natural. I suspect if I went around my office and asked everyone what it was called before, barely anyone would know.

The key difference is that the line opened to the public as the Elizabeth Line rather than opening all branded as Crossrail only to get changed after it had been opened.

Perhaps it's also relevant that the opening of the Elizabeth Line was one of the late Queen's few public appearances in her final months, we had the Jubilee soon afterwards and then the funeral. Though I don't have strong feelings myself, I believe many might have seen it as a fitting tribute to our longest-serving monarch.

 

[Wolfie]

Interestingly, I too thought I would continue to call it Crossrail, as the Elizabeth line seemed a silly name and a mouthful. However, even I find myself more comfortable with Elizabeth line these days !

Likewise, I remember thinking in about 2000 that I would never change from VHS to DVD, and similarly in about 2005 that I would never get a laptop (Both of which did happen)

Most folk l know call it the "Lizzy''....

 

[Trainguy34]

Most folk l know call it the "Lizzy''....

I mean, I know it as the purple Train but barely anyone else does

 

[duffield]

Interestingly, I too thought I would continue to call it Crossrail, as the Elizabeth line seemed a silly name and a mouthful. However, even I find myself more comfortable with Elizabeth line these days !

Likewise, I remember thinking in about 2000 that I would never change from VHS to DVD, and similarly in about 2005 that I would never get a laptop (Both of which did happen)

I thought I'd still call it crossrail, but after following the signs to get to the platforms for a few months, "Elizabeth Line" just implanted itself in my brain naturally. But it's still XR as well, because that's what realtime trains uses (for the same reason, West Midlands Railway still maps to LM in my head, and so on).

 

[Purple Train]

I mean, I know it as the purple Train but barely anyone else does

Strangely enough, I only know it as the "Elizabeth Line" (or the "Elizabeth line Line" if I'm in a particularly jolly mood)! As does everyone I know who uses it, which I found quite surprising - I thought people would still call it Crossrail.

A family friend is an engineer who worked on the project, and we still say that she "worked on Crossrail", never that she "worked on the Elizabeth Line". Come to think of it, I haven't a clue why. I wonder whether a similar dynamic - a differentiation between the line and the system - will persist with these new Overground names? Thinking of the matter a little further, I wonder whether the Elizabeth Line will come to be regarded as an Overground line in the future, assuming Crossrail 2 never comes to pass?

 

[Recessio]

I mean, I know it as the purple Train but barely anyone else does

I always liked Network SouthElizabeth

That's true, but to the general public, the lines have no name other than 'the Overground' - so the names TfL are introducing will be the first names they've heard of. Even if they've heard of the old names, it's been a very long time since these lines have had those names (and in some instances, they never had the name officially) so people will probably just naturally snap to whatever TfL says. Especially younger generations, of course.

I think the demise of "East London Line" in regular usage shows this. I don't know anyone (well, anyone who doesn't work in the railway industry) who still calls it ELL rather than just "The Overground". Tourists especially will just call it by whatever name is on the signs and phones, and I think you're right that it will catch on from there.

 

[Trainguy34]

I always liked Network SouthElizabeth .

OK that's actually genius!

 

[Mikey C]

Perhaps it's also relevant that the opening of the Elizabeth Line was one of the late Queen's few public appearances in her final months, we had the Jubilee soon afterwards and then the funeral. Though I don't have strong feelings myself, I believe many might have seen it as a fitting tribute to our longest-serving monarch.

Agreed. While I didn't agree with the name change, it effectively ended up as being a tribute to an iconic monarch.

I'm not sure the new Overground Line names are anywhere near as memorable, and even after being explained, most of them are still pretty obscure.

 

[birchesgreen]

Strangely enough, I only know it as the "Elizabeth Line" (or the "Elizabeth line Line" if I'm in a particularly jolly mood)! As does everyone I know who uses it, which I found quite surprising - I thought people would still call it Crossrail.

To the vast majority its only ever been called Elizabeth Line, only industry folk and enthusiasts probably know the Crossrail name.

 

[paul332]

Not so long ago we had the Northern line, Northern City line (Moorgate-Finsbury Park), Northern line City branch, as well as North London line. Not in the least confusing. Now we'll have to say "Mildmay line (formerly NLL)", Windmill line (formerly ELL)", Suffrage line (formerly Goblin) etc when directing tourists and non-tourists. Much like "X (formerly Twitter)".

 

[bluegoblin7]

A family friend is an engineer who worked on the project, and we still say that she "worked on Crossrail", never that she "worked on the Elizabeth Line". Come to think of it, I haven't a clue why.

This is quite correct. The engineering project is (was) Crossrail, the operational railway is the Elizabeth line.

 

[Peter0124]

I like the Suffragette line. Only thing is it's replacing arguably the most known Overground line (the GOBLIN), which'll take getting used to.

Is there a connection in the local area to the suffragette movement? Bit like how the Lioness line is the one through Wembley Central.

 

[Purple Train]

This is quite correct. The engineering project is (was) Crossrail, the operational railway is the Elizabeth line.

Excellent, I shall pretend I realised that all along!

 

[bluegoblin7]

I like the Suffragette line. Only thing is it's replacing arguably the most known Overground line (the GOBLIN), which'll take getting used to.

Is there a connection in the local area to the suffragette movement? Bit like how the Lioness line is the one through Wembley Central.

Yes - from https://madeby.tfl.gov.uk/2024/02/15/overground_line_names/?intcmp=75213:

The Suffragette line​

Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside
The term was derived from the first wave of the campaign for women’s votes – the Suffragists. Together, with the Suffragettes, they paved the way for women’s rights, giving women a voice and the opportunity to vote. The line’s name pays especial homage to East London Federation of Suffragettes, which was a largely working-class suffragette movement in the East End. They campaigned for the rights of working-class women, and held public marches and meetings, produced a weekly newspaper and formed a small People’s Army to defend themselves from police violence.  
A key member of the movement was Annie Huggett. She lived, campaigned and died in Barking at the age of 103, making her the longest surviving suffragette. Huggett was a pioneer who fought for votes when she was just a teenager. She even held tea for the Pankhursts, a family of leading suffragettes, at her home on King Edward’s Road. She organised meetings from the former George Inn in Barking Broadway – then the Three Lamps – a spot favoured by trade unionists and suffragettes. Her work helped empower women to have a significant impact on society, in the past, present and continuing into the future.  
Today, women continue the campaign for equal rights. From the Women Activists of East London uncovering the real activists behind societal change in East London, to The Fawcett Society based in Bethnal Green, which campaigns for equal rights at work – such as closing the gender pay gap – as well as at home and in public life.  

 

[Bletchleyite]

I like the Suffragette line. Only thing is it's replacing arguably the most known Overground line (the GOBLIN), which'll take getting used to.

Is there a connection in the local area to the suffragette movement? Bit like how the Lioness line is the one through Wembley Central.

I slightly mourn the Harlequin Line, but even the Watford shopping centre has lost the name now (all the ones that left Intu got their old name back except that one for some reason!)

 

[Wolfie]

Not so long ago we had the Northern line, Northern City line (Moorgate-Finsbury Park), Northern line City branch, as well as North London line. Not in the least confusing. Now we'll have to say "Mildmay line (formerly NLL)", Windmill line (formerly ELL)", Suffrage line (formerly Goblin) etc when directing tourists and non-tourists. Much like "X (formerly Twitter)".

No one is going to be saying "formerly"....

 

[Acton1991]

The majority of people will call the line whatever it says on Citymapper and Google Maps. It'll stick pretty quickly. Just like the Lizzie.

 

[D7666]

This is quite correct. The engineering project is (was) Crossrail, the operational railway is the Elizabeth line.

Excellent, I shall pretend I realised that all along!

Like wise Trans Manche Link = channel tunnel engineering, Eurotunnel = channel tunnel operating.

If we ever get that far, Crossrail II engineering, < insert text > operating.

 

[PeterC]

Almost certainly older people will.

I still occasionally hear some folk refer to the Hammersmith and City line as the Metropolitan line. Perhaps there are folk who still refer to the northern parts of the Jubilee line as the Bakerloo?

People do stick with the names that they are familiar with. It was interesting to see from a previous post that people are still calling Romford to Upminster as the Push & Pull over 60 years after both Romford and Upminster services became entirely multiple unit operated.

Its not just trains of course. In the 60s my late mother would always refer to the Eastern National buses in Romford as City Coaches.

 

[Minstral25]

People do stick with the names that they are familiar with. It was interesting to see from a previous post that people are still calling Romford to Upminster as the Push & Pull over 60 years after both Romford and Upminster services became entirely multiple unit operated.

Its not just trains of course. In the 60s my late mother would always refer to the Eastern National buses in Romford as City Coaches.

Called it the Push Pull when I was going to school on it in the 70's, never called it anything else and as the "Liberty" was a rival school all those years ago I suspect I'll still be calling it Push-pull. I always though the buses were called "Greyhounds"

 

[CBlue]

Like wise Trans Manche Link = channel tunnel engineering, Eurotunnel = channel tunnel operating.

If we ever get that far, Crossrail II engineering, < insert text > operating.

The Brian Line, presumably

 

[Wolfie]

People do stick with the names that they are familiar with. It was interesting to see from a previous post that people are still calling Romford to Upminster as the Push & Pull over 60 years after both Romford and Upminster services became entirely multiple unit operated.

Its not just trains of course. In the 60s my late mother would always refer to the Eastern National buses in Romford as City Coaches.

Indeed. My late folks always called the buses back in Shropshire "Midland Red"....

 

[Sunil_P]

No sign (or even a hint!) of any "Liberty Line" signage at Romford, Emerson Park or Upminster at the current time.