New Overground line names progress?

[Wolfie]

Me too.

As I've said elsewhere before, the Jubilee Line should have been renamed to the Elizabeth Line to mark QEII's passing. Having a line named for her 25th year on the throne is a bit daft when she made it to 70.

Renaming a line which has been in service for 50+ years for no good operational reasons has it's own issues though. Not least the completely unnecessary cost.

 

[talldave]

Renaming a line which has been in service for 50+ years for no good operational reasons has it's own issues though. Not least the completely unnecessary cost.

Unnecessary cost doesn't seem to have hampered the pointless Overground initiative. I wish they'd spend money replacing their ludicrous departure screens, which are pathetic - repeating services across screens and omitting departure times for starters.

 

[JamesT]

Me too.

As I've said elsewhere before, the Jubilee Line should have been renamed to the Elizabeth Line to mark QEII's passing. Having a line named for her 25th year on the throne is a bit daft when she made it to 70.

Though a Jubilee is merely an anniversary. It may have been Silver when named, though Platinum for 70th is also a silver coloured metal

 

[renegademaster]

Unnecessary cost doesn't seem to have hampered the pointless Overground initiative. I wish they'd spend money replacing their ludicrous departure screens, which are pathetic - repeating services across screens and omitting departure times for starters.

Not to forget TFL still are required to install propper announcements on the Bakerloo line, have not yet, with ORR judgment soon to be issued on whether it can continue operating. Sounds like a better use of money.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

From whenever these maps were made, they always said Autumn 2024 on them, this deployment time was expected.
Tube map with new names:

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/tube-map-with-the-new-lo-names.pdf

Just the overground map:

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-overground-map-autumn-2024.pdf

 

[Dr_Paul]

How should it be pronounced then - for those who do use the name - if not in the obvious way?

My paternal grandparents hailed from Dalston and they always pronounced it 'Marmay'. Mildmay Park station was just up the road, I think it closed in the 1930s. This new name for the North London Line is, however, named after the Mildmay Hospital, which is some miles away from Dalston.

 

[wanderingriver]

From whenever these maps were made, they always said Autumn 2024 on them, this deployment time was expected.
Tube map with new names:

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/tube-map-with-the-new-lo-names.pdf

Just the overground map:

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-overground-map-autumn-2024.pdf

Now we wait for the National Rail map…

 

[edwin_m]

If more lines are devolved to TfL, as Sadiq Khan would like and the new government may agree, how will they find enough colours to tell them apart?

 

[michael8]

Should have been called "Horizontal Thameslink "

haha

 

[Recessio]

If more lines are devolved to TfL, as Sadiq Khan would like and the new government may agree, how will they find enough colours to tell them apart?

They manage it now with all the NR operators, I'm sure they'll find something.

I think the current dual-lines is a good way to differentiate the Overground lines from the Underground.

 

[Ken H]

I still refer to the "Brown Line" as the Baker Street and Waterloo Railway...

What about the Great Northern, Piccadilly and Brompton Railway?

 

[Wolfie]

Unnecessary cost doesn't seem to have hampered the pointless Overground initiative. I wish they'd spend money replacing their ludicrous departure screens, which are pathetic - repeating services across screens and omitting departure times for starters.

The irony about your post is that many folk on here complained that it was difficult to distinguish between the different Overground lines and wanted them named or numbered German-style. I can't help but feel that the issue some folk have is not with naming the lines but with the names chosen. Some of that may be a wish to use names which have been in relatively common usage but could lead to confusion (i.e. North London line) but a lot seems to be political.

 

[J-2739]

The irony about your post is that many folk on here complained that it was difficult to distinguish between the different Overground lines and wanted them named or numbered German-style. I can't help but feel that the issue some folk have is not with naming the lines but with the names chosen. Some of that may be a wish to use names which have been in relatively common usage but could lead to confusion (i.e. North London line) but a lot seems to be political.

I mean, we still have the Northern and Bakerloo lines, despite their names not having much significance to their current routings. I'm not seeing much of a campaign to rectify these disparities, and so it is strange that all the attention is being directed to the North London Line.

 

[Recessio]

I mean, we still have the Northern and Bakerloo lines, despite their names not having much significance to their current routings. I'm not seeing much of a campaign to rectify these disparities, and so it is strange that all the attention is being directed to the North London Line.

I think there's a difference between this, which is the first time that a unique line identity is being applied to public signage and mapping for these Overground routes, versus renaming an existing tube line that already has an established identity.

Outside of these forums, I bet nobody has much idea of the "existing" line names - with the exception of the GOBLIN. Much like nobody calls them by TfL's current names eg "Stratford-Clapham Junction and Richmond route" which can be seen on the in-car line diagrams.

 

[Wolfie]

I mean, we still have the Northern and Bakerloo lines, despite their names not having much significance to their current routings. I'm not seeing much of a campaign to rectify these disparities, and so it is strange that all the attention is being directed to the North London Line.

I was actually more thinking Northern line and North London Line to be honest but fully appreciate that l wasn't clear. Sorry.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jul 2024 ==

Bec

I think there's a difference between this, which is the first time that a unique line identity is being applied to public signage and mapping for these Overground routes, versus renaming an existing tube line that already has an established identity.

Outside of these forums, I bet nobody has much idea of the "existing" line names - with the exception of the GOBLIN. Much like nobody calls them by TfL's current names eg "Stratford-Clapham Junction and Richmond route" which can be seen on the in-car line diagrams.

A good point.... and l use two of them pretty much every day.

 

[renegademaster]

I mean, we still have the Northern and Bakerloo lines, despite their names not having much significance to their current routings. I'm not seeing much of a campaign to rectify these disparities, and so it is strange that all the attention is being directed to the North London Line.

Those lines weren't named in a group of 6 other lines at the same time.

 

[londonbridge]

I really wish they didn’t give the lines those names…

Yep, just another ridiculous Khan vanity project.

 

[Wolfie]

Yep, just another ridiculous Khan vanity project.

Considering the money his bumptious incompetent predecessor spaffed up the wall that comment is more than a tad ironic. He's been elected three times, you better deal with it.

 

[talldave]

Considering the money his bumptious incompetent predecessor spaffed up the wall that comment is more than a tad ironic. He's been elected three times, you better deal with it.

83% of Londoners didn't vote for him, so some of us are weary of the money he wastes on projects like this.

 

[Geogregor]

Is this politics thread?

 

[vic-rijrode]

What about the Great Northern, Piccadilly and Brompton Railway?

Which was originally to be 2 separate underground railways - the Holborn - Aldwych stub (alas now closed) is a remnant of the line from the north (the Great Northern and Strand Railway - the Northrand Line?).
The other line would have been the Brompton and Piccadilly Railway (the Bromdilly Line?). They were merged by the Underground Electric Railways Company of London.

 

[vuzzeho]

Outside of these forums, I bet nobody has much idea of the "existing" line names - with the exception of the GOBLIN. Much like nobody calls them by TfL's current names eg "Stratford-Clapham Junction and Richmond route" which can be seen on the in-car line diagrams.

If you ask me, that's true. From experience, everyone calls it just 'the Overground'. I've never heard someone who isn't an avid rail enthusiast call them by their unofficial names.

 

[Class15]

If you ask me, that's true. From experience, everyone calls it just 'the Overground'. I've never heard someone who isn't an avid rail enthusiast call them by their unofficial names.

I’ve heard quite a few over the years talking about the North London line. Therefore I can’t agree.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Is this politics thread?

It all started to go wrong when they substituted "Jubilee Line" for the perfectly good working name of "Fleet Line".

Be careful what you wish for, if it had been kept as the Fleet Line until the extension was built, it would have inevitably been renamed the "Millennium Line" by the time the extension opens, which would forever smack of the New Labour era

 

[AlbertBeale]

The irony about your post is that many folk on here complained that it was difficult to distinguish between the different Overground lines and wanted them named or numbered German-style. I can't help but feel that the issue some folk have is not with naming the lines but with the names chosen. Some of that may be a wish to use names which have been in relatively common usage but could lead to confusion (i.e. North London line) but a lot seems to be political.

The main problem with the Overground name is the confusion with the long-running Londoners' parlance of "the overground" to mean "the big trains" in general (especially if you mostly use the Underground). When I grew up, north of the river where Underground use was mostly concentrated of course, any neighbour or family members who was venturing on local trains south of the river would inevitably make a reference to needing to use "the overground". And it's still "regular-person-speak" to this day. On a recent Tim Dunn programme about the Underground, he interviewed a busker who uses various pitches in Underground stations; said busker went on to make a reference to going elsewhere, and leaving the Underground, and made a natural-sounding reference to heading to Charing Cross for "the overground". (Meaning, main line in general of course.)

I think there's a difference between this, which is the first time that a unique line identity is being applied to public signage and mapping for these Overground routes, versus renaming an existing tube line that already has an established identity.

Outside of these forums, I bet nobody has much idea of the "existing" line names - with the exception of the GOBLIN. Much like nobody calls them by TfL's current names eg "Stratford-Clapham Junction and Richmond route" which can be seen on the in-car line diagrams.

I’ve heard quite a few over the years talking about the North London line. Therefore I can’t agree.

Indeed - "North London Line" has been normal for generations (along with, at one stage, in some circles, "the magic railway" when it was a much much less frequent service and its actual appearance - when it did turn up - combined with the strange places it went to, seemed magical). Similarly, the East London Line naturally morphed into that when it switched from LT, who had long shown it on tube maps as "Met Line - East London Section" or similar. I hardly know any Londoner who uses them who doesn't use those names for those two lines as often as saying "the Overground". GOBLIN is perhaps slightly less entrenched, but even then it's not just train fans, it's been called that in local press reports about the line for many many years.

If line names were essential (which I don't think they are), it's really stupid not to at least use existing ones which are well established. It's not the opposition to them which is "political".

 

[Basil Jet]

"North London Line" has been normal for generations

It even had the words "North London" written along its course on the map in the 1990s.
(Sorry about the tiny blurry map)

 

[Wolfie]

The main problem with the Overground name is the confusion with the long-running Londoners' parlance of "the overground" to mean "the big trains" in general (especially if you mostly use the Underground). When I grew up, north of the river where Underground use was mostly concentrated of course, any neighbour or family members who was venturing on local trains south of the river would inevitably make a reference to needing to use "the overground". And it's still "regular-person-speak" to this day. On a recent Tim Dunn programme about the Underground, he interviewed a busker who uses various pitches in Underground stations; said busker went on to make a reference to going elsewhere, and leaving the Underground, and made a natural-sounding reference to heading to Charing Cross for "the overground". (Meaning, main line in general of course.)




Indeed - "North London Line" has been normal for generations (along with, at one stage, in some circles, "the magic railway" when it was a much much less frequent service and its actual appearance - when it did turn up - combined with the strange places it went to, seemed magical). Similarly, the East London Line naturally morphed into that when it switched from LT, who had long shown it on tube maps as "Met Line - East London Section" or similar. I hardly know any Londoner who uses them who doesn't use those names for those two lines as often as saying "the Overground". GOBLIN is perhaps slightly less entrenched, but even then it's not just train fans, it's been called that in local press reports about the line for many many years.

If line names were essential (which I don't think they are), it's really stupid not to at least use existing ones which are well established. It's not the opposition to them which is "political".

I've lived in Islington since 1990, use the NLL and ELL every day, and have never heard anyone - even TfL staff - refer to those lines in those terms.

I absolutely agree your comments about the Overground though. I think that is why TfL called it the "London Overground".

 

[Class15]

I've lived in Islington since 1990, use the NLL and ELL every day, and have never heard anyone - even TfL staff - refer to those lines in those terms.

When I went to a restaurant for dinner yesterday the next table mentioned going somewhere on the ‘North London line’!

 

[LLivery]

I think there's a difference between this, which is the first time that a unique line identity is being applied to public signage and mapping for these Overground routes, versus renaming an existing tube line that already has an established identity.

Outside of these forums, I bet nobody has much idea of the "existing" line names - with the exception of the GOBLIN. Much like nobody calls them by TfL's current names eg "Stratford-Clapham Junction and Richmond route" which can be seen on the in-car line diagrams.

I’ve heard quite a few over the years talking about the North London line. Therefore I can’t agree.

I've lived in Islington since 1990, use the NLL and ELL every day, and have never heard anyone - even TfL staff - refer to those lines in those terms.

I absolutely agree your comments about the Overground though. I think that is why TfL called it the "London Overground".

I've heard people say North and East London Lines. ELL was common as it was the LU line. I've even seen LO printed posters and on the CIS say 'North/East London Line'. Most recently at West Hampstead a few months ago.

 

[Recessio]

Having lived on the North London Line for a number of years,

I've lived in Islington since 1990, use the NLL and ELL every day, and have never heard anyone - even TfL staff - refer to those lines in those terms.

I absolutely agree your comments about the Overground though. I think that is why TfL called it the "London Overground".

I agree, I lived on the NLL for three years and never heard anyone call it anything other than "the Overground" - or even "the tube" once...

Either way, with these new line identities, I'm guessing much like Crossrail being named Elizabeth line, they'll quickly fall into common usage.