New Northern brands

[Meerkat]

As for the new trains, economies of scale dictate that the best choice would be to retire everything and run a fleet based around class 195s and their electric sibling

I don’t think economies of scale automatically dictate that you have to replace everything!

 

[Energy]

I don’t think economies of scale automatically dictate that you have to replace everything!

I personally would replace everything except the 170s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I personally would replace everything except the 170s.

And use them on long distance routes, not local stopping services. They're very nice, but they are grindingly slow off the mark and severely underpowered. The Class 172 order for the West Midlands got it right - transform the local stopping services by directly replacing 150s with DMUs with EMU like acceleration, and use the 170s on the longer distance stuff they're designed for.

 

[py_megapixel]

I personally would replace everything except the 170s.

The 323s still seem to have plenty life left in them. Don't forget they're almost 25 years newer than the Sprinters. But I think by the time there is likely to be a change in brand of the Northern franchise, those will be close to retirement as well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 323s still seem to have plenty life left in them. Don't forget they're almost 25 years newer than the Sprinters. But I think by the time there is likely to be a change in brand of the Northern franchise, those will be close to retirement as well.

Though EMUs tend to last much longer DMUs, as they haven't got a big donk underneath shaking the coach to bits. Hamburg were using pre-WW2 EMUs on the S-Bahn until about 2000 (471/871s), for example, some of them had original interiors with wooden benches and tungsten lighting which was wonderfully atmospheric. So the 323s probably have a good 50 years in total before they're knackered, and because they looked a bit "space age" in the 90s they still look modern now.

 

[Roast Veg]

North Eastern Railway is an obvious choice for a future East side name. I'd be tempted by something along the lines of Lancashire, Cheshire, and Cumbria Railway for the West side.

 

[cactustwirly]

There probably doesn't need to be, but as you're aware I am a great proponent of Takt, and one aspect of Takt is that you have train categorisation with consistent quality and calling points for each train category.

So it's no different to DB having RB, RE, IC and ICE. Northern is RB, Northern Connect RE, TPE/XC IC and Avanti/LNER ICE.

But the trains used to operate RE and RB services are exactly the same, and they are both branded DB Regio.
It's the same with ÖBB and their R and REx trains, and Trenitalia with the R and Regional Velocè (RV) trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But the trains used to operate RE and RB services are exactly the same, and they are both branded DB Regio

Yes, you can have some aspects between the categories the same, that's not a problem. The differernce between RB and RE is the stopping pattern and whether it's in a Takt or not.

"Northern Connect" doesn't have to be painted on the side of the train to work.

 

[skyhigh]

Someone on here did a purple-based brand which looked really good. I half recall they are only allowed to keep the present one for a specified period of time as Arriva own it, but I forget how long.

I realise this was posted several pages ago, but this isn't right. There's a limited time they're able to continue using "by arriva" (to give time to replace uniform as it's written on it), but there's no limit on using the Northern name. Indeed, the new coats are identical to the current ones except not having the "by arriva" under the logo.

The brand isn't going anywhere any time soon, but I'm enjoying reading the ideas of what could replace it

 

[py_megapixel]

I realise this was posted several pages ago, but this isn't right. There's a limited time they're able to continue using "by arriva" (to give time to replace uniform as it's written on it), but there's no limit on using the Northern name. Indeed, the new coats are identical to the current ones except not having the "by arriva" under the logo.

The brand isn't going anywhere any time soon, but I'm enjoying reading the ideas of what could replace it

Before I make this post I am going to affirm that I do not object to giving railway staff new uniforms if they need them. I know that this is a contentious issue on this forum.

I had forgotten that Arriva put their name on the uniforms.

Do you know if Arriva are having to pay for the cost of the new uniforms? It seems that it's not really fair for OLR to pay for it given that Arriva specced the "by Arriva" part and the coats are still presumably perfectly suitable for use, being only a few years old?

Also, presumably there must be something being done to avoid a scenario where a staff member accidentally turns up wearing their old coat, thereby displaying a brand which the company has no rights to use. Does anybody know what this is?

 

[Royston Vasey]

And everybody seems to be missing Cumbria out

Then, Northumbrian Rail!

 

[hst43102]

Merge Northern and TPE franchises, just call most services TransPennine Express or TransPennine Connect. Possibly with a third sub-brand for Cumbrian services?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Merge Northern and TPE franchises, just call most services TransPennine Express or TransPennine Connect. Possibly with a third sub-brand for Cumbrian services?

What about services that don't go anywhere near the Pennines? This is why Northern works.

 

[hst43102]

What about services that don't go anywhere near the Pennines? This is why Northern works.

Except for Cumbrian services and some in east Yorkshire / Liverpool, most Northern services run somewhere near the Pennines...

 

[tpjm]

Not that I'm trying to shove my idea down anyone's throat, but this has already been discussed over in this thread.




(Original Class 331 drawing by WestRail642fan)

 

[Purple Orange]

What about services that don't go anywhere near the Pennines? This is why Northern works.

Except for Cumbrian services and some in east Yorkshire / Liverpool, most Northern services run somewhere near the Pennines...

I think “Pennines” and variations of it works for the north of England generally. It represents a backbone of the region and country, and being a northerner, I identify with the Pennines, despite living in the cities for most of my life.

That said, I think distinct branding helps from a passenger perspective, much like London Northwestern and West Midlands Rail, identifying different services.

 

[Energy]

Not that I'm trying to shove my idea down anyone's throat, but this has already been discussed over in this thread.

View attachment 77903View attachment 77904


(Original Class 331 drawing by WestRail642fan)

Looks good, totally not biased because I mentioned the name in this thread

I would suggest "Network North"

 

[Fokx]

Considering how the current Northern DMU fleet largely consists of most of the UK’s the 150/153/155/156 and 158’s you could rename the brand Sprinter.

Former Northern Connect services could become ‘Express Sprinter’ and all station stoppers ‘Pacer’

Though if we take a historical route I’m very fond of how strong the word ‘Regional’ sounds, a nod to Regional Railways and accompanied by a slogan such as “connecting the North”

To move away from the previous blue and dark tones of Arriva North and Serco-Abellio I’d gear towards using a maroon, orchid purple or red livery on the opposite end of the colour spectrum

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think Northern is fine.

No one outside of this forum who isn't in the industry gives a damn about franchises and I don't think it matters much.

Indeed so. As a matter of comparison, despite all its past strike periods, trials and tribulations, is not Southern still a franchise name?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

To move away from the previous blue and dark tones of Arriva North and Secro-Abellio I’d gear towards using a maroon, orchid purple or red livery on the opposite end of the colour spectrum

Noting the second-named organisation above, I was not aware that the voluntary body known as Secro (South East Cave Rescue Association) had joined forces with Abellio.

 

[alistairlees]

The name and brand are not the problem.

 

[CBlue]

I don't understand the reasoning behind creating five or six brands for various routes as previous posters in this thread have suggested. All that does is lead to confusion for the average passenger...

Say Joe Q. Public buys an operator restricted ticket that states "Northern Rail Trains only" and his service is formed of stock branded for "Yorkshire Connect" or what have you and is a different colour to what the ticket office staff may have told him. Yes, he could ask the guard - but I've been in the position before where some guards weren't sure if the regional ranger tickets I had were valid on their TOC or not!