New North Wales to Manchester train services

[Greenback]

The troubkle with identifying loading son the Marches is that it's such a long route serving so many flows. I've done Llanelli - Manchester and back on many occasions, and I'm always surprised by how a 3 car unit can seem quiet and peaceful at one moment, then rammed shortly after. Or vice versa!

As an example, if I catch the 0830 from Llanelli, it's packed, until Swansea, and remains very busy until Cardiff. It's often standing room only after Neath. A lot get off at Cardiff, and the train is usually relatively quiet from there to Hereford, where it starts to get busy, before becoming even busier at Shrewsbury. By the time we get to Crewe, the train is rammed again all the way to Manchester.

The return service then needs to deal with the afternoon peak of students and shoppers, then workers as it progresses south. So it's possible to use the train for a section or two and conclude that there's plenty of room, even though that's not the case for the other sections.

Oops, I've just noticed what this thread is about and realised that this is a bit off topic!

 

[Gareth Marston]

The troubkle with identifying loading son the Marches is that it's such a long route serving so many flows. I've done Llanelli - Manchester and back on many occasions, and I'm always surprised by how a 3 car unit can seem quiet and peaceful at one moment, then rammed shortly after. Or vice versa!

As an example, if I catch the 0830 from Llanelli, it's packed, until Swansea, and remains very busy until Cardiff. It's often standing room only after Neath. A lot get off at Cardiff, and the train is usually relatively quiet from there to Hereford, where it starts to get busy, before becoming even busier at Shrewsbury. By the time we get to Crewe, the train is rammed again all the way to Manchester.

The return service then needs to deal with the afternoon peak of students and shoppers, then workers as it progresses south. So it's possible to use the train for a section or two and conclude that there's plenty of room, even though that's not the case for the other sections.

Oops, I've just noticed what this thread is about and realised that this is a bit off topic!

Undoubtedly true the Marches is always busier than N Wales coast most days of the year. Serves a bigger population and has fewer services. The Marches doesn't get 5 car Voaygers being tail chased by a 3 car 175 with another train 20 minutes behind that!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Undoubtedly true the Marches is always busier than N Wales coast most days of the year. Serves a bigger population and has fewer services. The Marches doesn't get 5 car Voaygers being tail chased by a 3 car 175 with another train 20 minutes behind that!

I don't think that's true.
The North Wales services can be very busy (eastbound am, westbound pm).
Today, for instance, I was on a Cardiff-Holyhead service from Shrewsbury (3-car 175).
It was comfortable as far as Chester, where it got rammed with Irish folk heading for Holyhead and the ferry home.
Not typical, but ATW has to try and cater for every flow.
Both lines defy generalisation, I think.

The afternoon VT Voyager, by the way, was parked up at Coton Hill when I passed.
All the various "non-connecting" cross-platform connections at Shrewsbury were easily made.

 

[PHILIPE]

I don't think that's true.
The North Wales services can be very busy (eastbound am, westbound pm).
Today, for instance, I was on a Cardiff-Holyhead service from Shrewsbury (3-car 175).
It was comfortable as far as Chester, where it got rammed with Irish folk heading for Holyhead and the ferry home.
Not typical, but ATW has to try and cater for every flow.
Both lines defy generalisation, I think.

The afternoon VT Voyager, by the way, was parked up at Coton Hill when I passed.
All the various "non-connecting" cross-platform connections at Shrewsbury were easily made.

I think the Irish traffic going to Holyhead would have been merely seasonal at this time of the year and not the norm.

 

[Philip]

What is booked on the 15:50 Manchester to Llandudno these days?

3-car 175.

The 06:30 from Manchester arrives in Cardiff around 09:45, also the 11:0x arrival into Manchester from Carmarthen would arrive in Cardiff between 07:30 and 08:00 so I guess they can get busy around Cardiff. The other 2-car diagrams don't really hit Cardiff or Manchester in rush hour times. I guess putting another couple of 3-car diagrams on South Wales runs could mess up the diagrams in North Wales.

 

[berneyarms]

I think the Irish traffic going to Holyhead would have been merely seasonal at this time of the year and not the norm.

Very much so - it's Christmas week and all routes to Ireland be they sea or air will be very heavily booked.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Looking back at my BR 1981 tt the North Wales Coast was very seasonal the winter service was barely 1 Tph from Chester to Llandudno Jnc though summer Saturday services were near as frequent as today's offerings.

Today The vagaries of franchising and politics gives it a surplus of services , I struggle to think of another line where 2 TOC's compete over such a long distance and have government funded trains interlaced on top.

 

[merlodlliw]

Undoubtedly true the Marches is always busier than N Wales coast most days of the year. Serves a bigger population and has fewer services. The Marches doesn't get 5 car Voaygers being tail chased by a 3 car 175 with another train 20 minutes behind that!

I note Rhyl still has four up trains between 0600 & 0700, a kind overkill,two ATW Franchise, One VT and one ATW Open Access.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I note Rhyl still has four up trains between 0600 & 0700, a kind overkill,two ATW Franchise, One VT and one ATW Open Access.

Certainly away from S Wales ATW tt are a dogs dinner, the North Wales Coast being the prime example. In fact it seems with help of Virgin, the Wrexham Bank Holiday problem, now Cambrian trains tail chase VT across Shropshire 9 minutes behind but no connection. And try the tt at Craven Arms or Church Stretton!

In fact I've just read a copy of the Ludlow Rail Users Group newsletter and there aspirations for the new franchise says they want through trains to Cardiff to the south and Crewe and Manchester to the North with an hourly all stops Shrewsbury to Hereford service, allowing some faster Manchester to Cardiff trains, connections at Shrewsbury for North Wales are fine. It seems the enthusiasm for Holyhead trains is not from gentile and prosperous Ludlow!

 

[gazthomas]

Today's diagram seems to have been a 175 - I had hoped for the loco hauled service as I went to Deganwy for a night shot earlier.😳

 

[merlodlliw]

Today's diagram seems to have been a 175 - I had hoped for the loco hauled service as I went to Deganwy for a night shot earlier.😳

last week it was a three carriage Mark3, what makes you think it was a 175 today, on all routes. More problems I wonder.

 

[185143]

Today's diagram seems to have been a 175 - I had hoped for the loco hauled service as I went to Deganwy for a night shot earlier.😳

last week it was a three carriage Mark3, what makes you think it was a 175 today, on all routes. More problems I wonder.

I had to be the one that booked advance tickets on it from Manchester to Holyhead today...

I believe I may have a possible reason of it being a unit today, however I'd rather not post it as it may be misinterpreted, especially if it isn't what I think.

 

[PHILIPE]

To those who claim was a 175, please refer to post #257.

 

[Erniescooper]

175113 worked the entire north wales loco hauled diagram for some reason today, for those interested in Gerald 67029 worked up from Cardiff tonight .

 

[185143]

To those who claim was a 175, please refer to post #257.

I was on it! I can confirm it was indeed a 175. Not fun when I booked advances wanting a loco!

 

[merlodlliw]

Has expected we have lots of pictures today on North Wales Rail Website including Riding the Irish Mancunian - with George Jones.

heres the link
http://nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

What better way to enjoy going 'Down the Coast' than from a Mark3 coach while sat at a table for four and touching 80 mph-plus in places?

 

[Erniescooper]

Back to 67001 this morning.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Has expected we have lots of pictures today on North Wales Rail Website including Riding the Irish Mancunian - with George Jones.

heres the link
http://nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

Some great pics from John Hobbs of the Cambrian in the snow over the Christmas hols in 1964 too.

 

[gazthomas]

It was a 3 car 175 on the Manchester - Llandudno leg and back

 

[merlodlliw]

Some great pics from John Hobbs of the Cambrian in the snow over the Christmas hols in 1964 too.

Yes they are very good,when the Cambrian was a real railway with living trains.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It was a 3 car 175 on the Manchester - Llandudno leg and back

Thank you, I somehow suspect it was a staffing problem on Monday,just my opinion.
I note the fourth mark3 is now out about,since Saturday

 

[kieron]

I think the Irish traffic going to Holyhead would have been merely seasonal at this time of the year and not the norm.

There's a seasonal peak at this time of the year, but there are smaller peaks for other holidays such as Easter and St. Patrick's Day. This comes on top of the changes from season to season, and from day to day throughout the week. Arriva do sometimes put extra carriages on to meet the demand, but I occasionally wish they did a bit more.

 

[Erniescooper]

175110 working the diagram today.

 

[merlodlliw]

175110 working the diagram today.

What on earth is going on, I can understand Gerald being left in bed, but not the Manchester on XmasEve, so much for the ATW spin of extra capacity

Is this the second time this week a 175 has been drafted in to cover? thats a success rate of 33% for the week one out of three.

 

[PHILIPE]

There's a seasonal peak at this time of the year, but there are smaller peaks for other holidays such as Easter and St. Patrick's Day. This comes on top of the changes from season to season, and from day to day throughout the week. Arriva do sometimes put extra carriages on to meet the demand, but I occasionally wish they did a bit more.

ATW regularly strengthen the midday Fishguard Boats at peak times. What more could ATW do - it depends on stock being available.

 

[Rhydgaled]

The troubkle with identifying loading son the Marches is that it's such a long route serving so many flows. I've done Llanelli - Manchester and back on many occasions, and I'm always surprised by how a 3 car unit can seem quiet and peaceful at one moment, then rammed shortly after. Or vice versa!

Not really supprising. Even more unequally loaded I suspect would be the Holyhead-Cardiff trains, with the massive kink in the route (can look like a 90 degree turn on a diagramatic map) at Chester. What is busy going north from Cardiff to Chester is then likely to be quiet along the north Wales coast I suspect, and vice versa. One reason why I think, apart from Gerald, Holyhead-Cardiff trains should be split into two services at Chester, which might help them put 3-car 175s where they are most needed.

---------------
On Topic: (I've only looked at the last two pages, so appologies if this has already been answered) are the newly refurbished mrk3s for the Manchester diagram the same interior spec as the TSOs on Gerald?

 

[PHILIPE]

What on earth is going on, I can understand Gerald being left in bed, but not the Manchester on XmasEve, so much for the ATW spin of extra capacity

Is this the second time this week a 175 has been drafted in to cover? thats a success rate of 33% for the week one out of three.

ATW Journey Check shows 3 Carriages vice 4 due to traincrew unavailability indicating traction knowledge problem. Incidentally, ATW have cancelled several trains, or legs of trains, today due traincrew unavailability including HOW Line.

 

[gazthomas]

That's my trip from Llandudno Junction to Holyhead and back cancelled then!

 

[Gareth Marston]

ATW Journey Check shows 3 Carriages vice 4 due to traincrew unavailability indicating traction knowledge problem. Incidentally, ATW have cancelled several trains, or legs of trains, today due traincrew unavailability including HOW Line.

Illness or some result of archaic volunteering for Christmas Eve shifts with not enough volunteers?

 

[Philip]

What on earth is going on, I can understand Gerald being left in bed, but not the Manchester on XmasEve, so much for the ATW spin of extra capacity

Is this the second time this week a 175 has been drafted in to cover? thats a success rate of 33% for the week one out of three.

It isn't that busy on Christmas Eve, I'd say even a 2-car 175 woulod suffice today on the services.

 

[LowLevel]

Illness or some result of archaic volunteering for Christmas Eve shifts with not enough volunteers?

Don't be silly, I don't know of any TOC where Christmas Eve is out of the working week. The annual leave quotas might be full I guess but I suspect the other posters are much closer to the money.