New NFM 04

[Railjet]

Is there an updated version of Avantix available for download yet?

 

[John @ home]

Is there an updated version of Avantix available for download yet?

The CD is not yet on sale from TSO. Last year it was published on 1 September.

John

 

[nedchester]

The CD is not yet on sale from TSO. Last year it was published on 1 September.

John

It'll be on a file sharing website shortly afterwards.........!

 

[glynn80]

If there are any particular fares you had queries about, NFM 04 has been released to staff through the FRPP and I would be more than willing to look up any flows you may have concerns about.

 

[Railjet]

Thanks for the replies.

Nothing specific at the moment, just like playing around with it to try to get cheap fares.

 

[prd101]

is a new version released just because there's a few price changes? are most price rises saved until January, when another new version will be released?

 

[TSO]

Hi all

I can see there has been some discussion about the new NFM 04. This has published and will be able to purchase direct from TSO's online bookshop after the bank holiday. ISBN 9780117068407 £10.36. The TSO bookshop has a range of titles relating to rail transport - including the GB Rail Timetable (summer edition is the latest version) which now includes the Eurostar timetable as well as all GB rail travel.

Visit http://www.tsoshop.co.uk/bookstore.asp?trackid=002329&FO=1241783 for more information. The NFM 04 will be added to this page asap!

Hope this helps,
TSO Marketing

 

[Tom C]

Slightly off topic but is there a piece of software one can use to check fares within Europe? In particular one which can sort out FIP fares as its a complete nightmere trying to work out what is what.

 

[A60K]

Yes - go to www.jizdenka.cz and all TCV prices are available.

 

[Railjet]

Yes - go to www.jizdenka.cz and all TCV prices are available.

This is unfortunately of very limited use unless you want to pay the full international tariff fare. There are many bilateral or multilateral agreements between countries which offer significantly cheaper fares.

 

[323235]

Anyone got a copy of Avantix Traveller NFM04 to share yet?

 

[Sleepy]

Still not available to download yet ??

 

[kkong]

Why don't you just spend the £9 or whatever it is and get hold of a copy legally?

 

[bengley]

Why don't you just spend the £9 or whatever it is and get hold of a copy legally?

I don't understand why people want to pay for something which tells them how much they have to pay for something else. That's like having to pay to look at an advert for argos.

 

[yorkie]

Why don't you just spend the £9 or whatever it is and get hold of a copy legally?

Do you pay for price lists?

 

[kkong]

Do you pay for price lists?

It's more than a price list. The prices are freely available on the internet.

If you want the information in a database format that can be used offline and may be quicker to use for certain purposes, and is copyrighted / database righted, I think it is reasonable to expect to pay a small fee for it.

I will turn it around:

Do you condone copyright violation?

How about fare evasion?

 

[yorkie]

It's more than a price list. The prices are freely available on the internet.

The actual terms are not freely available. The price may be but you don't know what you are getting!

If you want the information in a database format that can be used offline and may be quicker to use for certain purposes, and is copyrighted / database righted, I think it is reasonable to expect to pay a small fee for it.

That's absurd. We should have the right to that information. On what basis can you possibly deny that right?

I will turn it around:

Do you condone copyright violation?

I absolutely condone it if the company has no moral and historical right to the copyright in the first place, and if the company threatens to fine us if we do not adhere to terms which are not freely available otherwise! This data was in public hands until it was put into private hands in very dubious circumstances, which I question the legality of.

How about fare evasion?

Do you believe that a customer under-paying is worse than a company over-charging? I'd be very interested to hear what you have to say about that. The railway companies are overcharging customers £millions and that is absolutely wrong and we should not tolerate it.

It is unacceptable for the TOCs to hide terms and conditions from us, but that is exactly what they try to do.

Someone will leak NFM04, there is nothing you can do to stop it. Accept the fact that an increasing number of passengers are NOT going to be ripped-off!

 

[ChrisTheRef]

How about fare evasion?

Isn't the whole point in using the program so that you DON'T evade paying the correct fare?

 

[kkong]

The actual terms are not freely available. The price may be but you don't know what you are getting!

Yes they are - ask at the ticket office. Nobody said that the prices had to be conveniently available. Compare that with where I live, there are no published bus fares for the large majority of the routes (those operated Stagecoach Bluebird). I can't even get a price list even if I wanted to pay for it.

That's absurd. We should have the right to that information. On what basis can you possibly deny that right?

You have access to the information. What you don't have free access to is a Windows PC program and associated quick lookup database that is primarily designed for ticket office staff.

I absolutely condone it if the company has no moral and historical right to the copyright in the first place, and if the company threatens to fine us if we do not adhere to terms which are not freely available otherwise! This data was in public hands until it was put into private hands in very dubious circumstances, which I question the legality of.

The information itself (fares data, validity codes...) is not copyrighted; the representation of it in PC software is. Could you please let me know if you believe that every (potential) rail passenger should have been able to walk up to their local booking office and demand a copy of the paper National Fares Manuals (seven volumes, wasn't it?) to take away free of charge?

Do you believe that a customer under-paying is worse than a company over-charging? I'd be very interested to hear what you have to say about that. The railway companies are overcharging customers £millions and that is absolutely wrong and we should not tolerate it.

Whether TOCs are over-charging or not is a matter of opinion. Some would say that with passenger numbers rising, the prices are obviously bearable by the market. If there were cheaper and/or more suitable alternative modes of travel, we would surely be seeing a long term trend of a decrease in passenger journeys, or at most a rise consistent with the rate of population growth.

It is unacceptable for the TOCs to hide terms and conditions from us, but that is exactly what they try to do.

I agree that it's unacceptable to hide T&C. But I'm not sure the average customer will either wants to know or care about the minutiae such as whether you can get off a train at 0230 and get back on it before 1200 the next day with an Anytime Day Single that seem to exercise many people on here.

They will ask at the ticket office as to the most suitable ticket for the journey they wish to make. ATOC's own guidelines require the retailer to provide the most suitable ticket for the journey requested. There are remedies available if this subsequently turns out not to have happened.

Someone will leak NFM04, there is nothing you can do to stop it. Accept the fact that an increasing number of passengers are NOT going to be ripped-off!

I don't have an issue with someone "leaking" it; I have a copy here myself (paid for).

I just find it rather hypocritical that some on this forum preach about those who evade fares, but also condone software piracy.

Whether or not you agree with it, the legal position is that the Avantix Traveller software and associated fares data is copyrighted.

 

[yorkie]

Yes they are - ask at the ticket office. Nobody said that the prices had to be conveniently available.

Any reasonable person would say that they should be conveniently available.

Compare that with where I live, there are no published bus fares for the large majority of the routes (those operated Stagecoach Bluebird). I can't even get a price list even if I wanted to pay for it.

Isn't it the law that they have to provide a full fares table on request if you ask for it, and that every bus must carry one?

You have access to the information.

No we don't! Having to ask someone else does not count as us having the information! That's like saying it's acceptable to have a supermarket where no quantities/prices are displayed and you have to enquire about each item. Madness!

What you don't have free access to is a Windows PC program and associated quick lookup database that is primarily designed for ticket office staff.

I don't care if it's a Windows program. They can put it in any format they like but we must have full access to all the information including all the restrictions.

The information itself (fares data, validity codes...) is not copyrighted; the representation of it in PC software is.

Well, unless someone comes up with another representation....

Could you please let me know if you believe that every (potential) rail passenger should have been able to walk up to their local booking office and demand a copy of the paper National Fares Manuals (seven volumes, wasn't it?) to take away free of charge?

For the cost of the paper and printing costs alone and no profit to the TOC? Yes! and in fact the fares manuals were about £10 and that probably just about covered the cost of producing them. That is reasonable. What's the cost of a CD + Postage? Not £10. What cost the bandwidth? Next to nothing. This is blatant profiteering.

But it would all be unnecessary if the booking engines gave us full details of the restrictions of the tickets!

Whether TOCs are over-charging or not is a matter of opinion. Some would say that with passenger numbers rising, the prices are obviously bearable by the market.

That's a meaningless statement. I could quite easily counter that by stating that the average distance travelled on a ticket is decreasing, as passengers realise that shorter distance tickets are better value for money and are now splitting their tickets while others abandon rail where long distance journeys are hideously expensive and take to the roads instead. It's the longer distance journeys that are the issue here, and they are accounting for a smaller proportion now!

If there were cheaper and/or more suitable alternative modes of travel, we would surely be seeing a long term trend of a decrease in passenger journeys, or at most a rise consistent with the rate of population growth.

And this justifies the TOCs having secret conditions how, exactly?

I agree that it's unacceptable to hide T&C.

So why condone it?

But I'm not sure the average customer will either wants to know or care about the minutiae such as whether you can get off a train at 0230 and get back on it before 1200 the next day with an Anytime Day Single that seem to exercise many people on here.

Many customers do want to know if they can break journeys overnight (see recent request for proof) and other such details. We will help people with all queries, no matter how un-"average" they may seem to you. If you don't like that, tough.

They will ask at the ticket office as to the most suitable ticket for the journey they wish to make.

or if they have more sense, ask on here to avoid being ripped off! If you don't like that, no-one is forcing you to participate.

ATOC's own guidelines require the retailer to provide the most suitable ticket for the journey requested.

And also prevent the retailer offering split tickets, so you have destroyed your own argument there!

There are remedies available if this subsequently turns out not to have happened.

No substantial remedy. And that does not address things like split tickets!

I don't have an issue with someone "leaking" it;

Then why complain about it?

I have a copy here myself (paid for).

So why aren't you helping people by answering their queries?

I just find it rather hypocritical that some on this forum preach about those who evade fares, but also condone software piracy.

Again, I ask you, do you condone overcharging by the TOCs? If the TOCs were well behaved no-one would need to "pirate" the software. The data rightly belongs to the public.

Whether or not you agree with it, the legal position is that the Avantix Traveller software and associated fares data is copyrighted.

Well any reasonable person would not agree with it, and as I said before someone will leak it, and do many passengers a favour when they do.

 

[kkong]

Good luck with your quest.

 

[bengley]

The actual terms are not freely available. The price may be but you don't know what you are getting!


That's absurd. We should have the right to that information. On what basis can you possibly deny that right?

I absolutely condone it if the company has no moral and historical right to the copyright in the first place, and if the company threatens to fine us if we do not adhere to terms which are not freely available otherwise! This data was in public hands until it was put into private hands in very dubious circumstances, which I question the legality of.

Do you believe that a customer under-paying is worse than a company over-charging? I'd be very interested to hear what you have to say about that. The railway companies are overcharging customers £millions and that is absolutely wrong and we should not tolerate it.

It is unacceptable for the TOCs to hide terms and conditions from us, but that is exactly what they try to do.

Someone will leak NFM04, there is nothing you can do to stop it. Accept the fact that an increasing number of passengers are NOT going to be ripped-off!

Finally, a rail enthusiast who doesn't cushion the railways from the truth. There's no doubt that they charge too much, and we should definitely have access to this program for free.