New New Street

[Pigeon]

September 20th is the date we've been told for being open. Apparantly the plan is that platforms will be called at the last minute which is why there are all the waiting rooms upstairs but the real reasoning behind that has to be to increase sales in the shops/cafes!

GAAAAaaaaarrrrggghhhh

another station ruined with this rubbish.

The last place I want to wait for a train is in a claustrophobic hive full of people and stale air and smells where there is nothing to look at and you can't even see the trains. New Street downstairs may be a bit gloomy but it is still better than that - there is fresh air out at the ends at least, there are trains to watch to pass the time, and most importantly there is plenty of space to get away from other people.

And the last thing I want to have to do when the train arrives is have to engage in a frantic race against a hundred other people just to get a decent seat. A race which I am bound to lose in any case because I can't breathe well enough to sustain the required speed over the distance involved.

This rubbish just adds an extra unnecessary element of hassle and stress to rail travel with no compensating benefit. I would boycott the shops/cafes in protest, except that I do that already because three mouthfuls costs as much as two whole days' worth of food from a shop that isn't on a station.

 

[edwin_m]

GAAAAaaaaarrrrggghhhh

another station ruined with this rubbish.

The last place I want to wait for a train is in a claustrophobic hive full of people and stale air and smells where there is nothing to look at and you can't even see the trains. New Street downstairs may be a bit gloomy but it is still better than that - there is fresh air out at the ends at least, there are trains to watch to pass the time, and most importantly there is plenty of space to get away from other people.

And the last thing I want to have to do when the train arrives is have to engage in a frantic race against a hundred other people just to get a decent seat. A race which I am bound to lose in any case because I can't breathe well enough to sustain the required speed over the distance involved.

This rubbish just adds an extra unnecessary element of hassle and stress to rail travel with no compensating benefit. I would boycott the shops/cafes in protest, except that I do that already because three mouthfuls costs as much as two whole days' worth of food from a shop that isn't on a station.

While I agree with you to a large extent, and particularly if trains are called late, I would make an exception for New Street.

The platform areas are noisy with a very unhealthy atmosphere if a couple of diesels are in that part of the station. Also most of them have very little space available for passengers to wait without blocking other passengers who are trying to move along the platform. There is also a tendency to re-platform trains, which is less of a hassle if most of the passengers have not yet gone to the platform (although it doesn't help with the very late platform changes that sometimes happen).

The current (as of a few months back, may have changed since) bridge-level waiting area at New Street is relatively civilised compared to the platforms. If the new "atrium" is as good as promised then it will be a much more pleasant place to wait in.

 

[AM9]

While I agree with you to a large extent, and particularly if trains are called late, I would make an exception for New Street.

The platform areas are noisy with a very unhealthy atmosphere if a couple of diesels are in that part of the station. Also most of them have very little space available for passengers to wait without blocking other passengers who are trying to move along the platform. There is also a tendency to re-platform trains, which is less of a hassle if most of the passengers have not yet gone to the platform (although it doesn't help with the very late platform changes that sometimes happen).

The current (as of a few months back, may have changed since) bridge-level waiting area at New Street is relatively civilised compared to the platforms. If the new "atrium" is as good as promised then it will be a much more pleasant place to wait in.

For those who want to experience the pandemonium that will endure just try New York Penn Station. OK, it will have a nice airy atrium, but surely someone in NR/DfT has seen the chaos that arises when platforms are called 10 minutes or less before departure.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The current (as of a few months back, may have changed since) bridge-level waiting area at New Street is relatively civilised compared to the platforms. If the new "atrium" is as good as promised then it will be a much more pleasant place to wait in.

It will, but the Euston scrum is dangerous, and introducing another one (made even more dangerous by the involvement of stairs and moving trains after the calling of the platform) is sheer lunacy. Someone will get hurt.

 

[SephenWorceste]

The new waiting area is nicer and they new atrium will be even better. I will still head to the platform as soon as I know where my train will be. It increases my chance of getting a seat. Given the choice of ten extra minutes in an atrium and forty minutes standing, or a higher probability of a seat on the train. All that delaying the platform announcements will do is create the rush we see at London terminals.

 

[trainophile]

I hope the new atrium has more seating than Euston. It can be done, take Manchester Piccadilly as a very good example.

 

[SephenWorceste]

Could there be any less seating than Euston.

 

[wellwhatitis]

The new waiting area is nicer and they new atrium will be even better. I will still head to the platform as soon as I know where my train will be. It increases my chance of getting a seat. Given the choice of ten extra minutes in an atrium and forty minutes standing, or a higher probability of a seat on the train. All that delaying the platform announcements will do is create the rush we see at London terminals.

There is a tremendous amount of over reaction going on regarding this atrium waiting policy. In reality they are already operating the system, yet most trains are signposted well in advance and I imagine will continue to be so. It won't be Euston.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is the intrusive cladding to all the pillars on the platforms likely to be removed?
It narrows all the platforms and forces a long crowded hike round to the working escalators.
I can understand the protection under the bits still being rebuilt, but I don't see why it is still there at the completed(?) north end.
That and the endless breeze block and plasterboard walls.

 

[Hadders]

Could there be any less seating than Euston.

Try Kings Cross!

 

[SephenWorceste]

Not been there for twenty plus years. I thought it had been renovated.

 

[Philip Elliott]

Is the intrusive cladding to all the pillars on the platforms likely to be removed?
It narrows all the platforms and forces a long crowded hike round to the working escalators.
I can understand the protection under the bits still being rebuilt, but I don't see why it is still there at the completed(?) north end.
That and the endless breeze block and plasterboard walls.

They are in the process of covering all the breeze blocks and pillars but they keep missing bits!

The west end of the station (car park facade) has really come on in the last few weeks.

 

[trainophile]

There must be at least 40 seats in that little cluster in the corner of KGX facing the departure boards, but at Euston I've only seen about half that number, even totalling up the few scattered around the entrances and the couple of groups angled around pillars. Unless there's another seating area that I'm unaware of.

Very good reason for buying 1st Class tickets, at least you can (usually!) find a seat in the Lounge .

 

[SephenWorceste]

At Euston there is always that small lounge along the walkway to the platforms.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is a tremendous amount of over reaction going on regarding this atrium waiting policy. In reality they are already operating the system, yet most trains are signposted well in advance and I imagine will continue to be so. It won't be Euston.

It better hadn't, as if it does people will get hurt. And others will use RTT and ignore it, like they do at Euston.

 

[SephenWorceste]

If we have a last minute rush like Euston, then the elderly, disabled, less mobile and people with luggage will not get seats and potentially left behind. I am sure the management will not allow that to happen.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I was at New Street early on Sunday and there was quite a queue for the lifts. People with luggage, cycles, pushchairs etc. A chap in a wheelchair was at the back of the queue when a staff member spotted him and moved him to the front. Nobody objected but I have never come across wheelchair uses being prioritised ahead of other users for a lift before.

 

[trainophile]

If we have a last minute rush like Euston, then the elderly, disabled, less mobile and people with luggage will not get seats and potentially left behind. I am sure the management will not allow that to happen.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I was at New Street early on Sunday and there was quite a queue for the lifts. People with luggage, cycles, pushchairs etc. A chap in a wheelchair was at the back of the queue when a staff member spotted him and moved him to the front. Nobody objected but I have never come across wheelchair uses being prioritised ahead of other users for a lift before.

I did a five minute detour to the escalator for 10A last week, upon finding 10B boarded off and a queue of about 20 people for the lift (bearing in mind the lifts are on the small side anyway, more suited to retail premises than large stations where people have luggage).

I agree about the less mobile being disadvantaged by the late platform calls, and can only hope that sense prevails at BHM. It's crazy at Euston as not only do you have the stampede, but then there's a bottleneck at the end of the walkways while everyone's tickets are checked manually. There must be a better way...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree about the less mobile being disadvantaged by the late platform calls, and can only hope that sense prevails at BHM. It's crazy at Euston as not only do you have the stampede, but then there's a bottleneck at the end of the walkways while everyone's tickets are checked manually. There must be a better way...

Yes, the way every station other than London and Glasgow/Edinburgh termini are operated, in that you advertise the platforms well in advance and lock the doors if you want to keep people off for any reason. Then let people choose when they go onto the platform.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The only people who I ever saw sprawled on those were spotters! No one else would have been prepared to get their clothes dirty!

You're quite right RC, I woz one of em'. Plenty banter round' dollies, who'd seen what, where, when etc

Any gen?

 

[wellwhatitis]

I did a five minute detour to the escalator for 10A last week, upon finding 10B boarded off and a queue of about 20 people for the lift (bearing in mind the lifts are on the small side anyway, more suited to retail premises than large stations where people have luggage).

I agree about the less mobile being disadvantaged by the late platform calls, and can only hope that sense prevails at BHM. It's crazy at Euston as not only do you have the stampede, but then there's a bottleneck at the end of the walkways while everyone's tickets are checked manually. There must be a better way...

The new lifts at the B ends are without doubt too small, especially compared to the old New St lifts. You can't even get two wheelchairs in them. I have yet to find out if there are to be further lifts at the A end, I would be surprised if there weren't.

Word is that the firm who supplied the new escalators are getting absolutely hammered in penalties.

I am assured by all the NR staff at New St I have spoken to that comparisons between the platform allocation system at Euston and the one that will be used here are totally unfounded. The emphasis that has been placed on the new waiting areas is merely a way to excuse the lack of provision at platform level of contained waiting rooms, as there used to be. It's not going to be a case of last minute directions to platform, merely a case of if you want a comfortable waiting area you won't find it on the platform.

 

[trainophile]

I am assured by all the NR staff at New St I have spoken to that comparisons between the platform allocation system at Euston and the one that will be used here are totally unfounded. The emphasis that has been placed on the new waiting areas is merely a way to excuse the lack of provision at platform level of contained waiting rooms, as there used to be. It's not going to be a case of last minute directions to platform, merely a case of if you want a comfortable waiting area you won't find it on the platform.

Thanks, that's reassuring. Any plans to put a few more seats on the platforms, even if not in waiting rooms?

 

[wellwhatitis]

Thanks, that's reassuring. Any plans to put a few more seats on the platforms, even if not in waiting rooms?

A small number of bench type seats similar to the ones already installed at the B ends I am told, but they will be very sparse. They want to encourage people not to congregate on platforms but there won't be any actual physical efforts to stop them.

I think people need to remember that we have all become used to the cramped and congested nature of the station due to the amount of time it has been in this transitional state. Once the platforms are all opened out and all escalators at both ends are operating, things should feel much better and run much more smoothly.

Disorientation has caused much of the congestion and confusion during this period. People arriving at the bottom of escalators and stopping dead because they can't actually see anything ahead of them, or there is no available space for them to move into.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am assured by all the NR staff at New St I have spoken to that comparisons between the platform allocation system at Euston and the one that will be used here are totally unfounded. The emphasis that has been placed on the new waiting areas is merely a way to excuse the lack of provision at platform level of contained waiting rooms, as there used to be. It's not going to be a case of last minute directions to platform, merely a case of if you want a comfortable waiting area you won't find it on the platform.

Good - that sounds rather more like Platform 13/14 at Manc Picc, which I think works reasonably well compared with the old situation before the lounge of the bit at the bottom of the stairs being clogged up.

There should be no more Euston scrums - that approach belongs back in the days of trains not having lockable doors. The best approach to me at termini would be to show the platform as soon as it is known, then use Preparing and Boarding to indicate whether the doors are released or not so people can make their own choice as to when to wander down.

 

[SephenWorceste]

I too hope they add more lifts at the other end of each platform. The existing lifts are too small and slow. Particularly as we are told not to take luggage on escalators. I wonder if travelators would have been a better idea. They seem to work for people boarding the Eurostar including those with wheeled luggage.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I too hope they add more lifts at the other end of each platform. The existing lifts are too small and slow. Particularly as we are told not to take luggage on escalators. I wonder if travelators would have been a better idea. They seem to work for people boarding the Eurostar including those with wheeled luggage.

I don't doubt for a minute that travelators would have been ideal. Problem is they'd have to be longer and shallower, and with the platforms at New Street being so cramped as it is, there'd be a lot more space lost.

 

[Yew]

Think the idea is you stay upstairs (you know, where the shops and restaurants are, $$$ ) and then go down (if you can find a working escalator) close to the time your train is due in.

Ahh, like the terrible method used by AMTRAK which seems to be slowly seeping its way into the UK.

 

[SephenWorceste]

Travelators do take up a lot of space. I suppose it comes back to the confined space available at New Street. There is no perfect solution.

 

[JaJaWa]

If we have a last minute rush like Euston, then the elderly, disabled, less mobile and people with luggage will not get seats and potentially left behind. I am sure the management will not allow that to happen.

If they've pre-booked passenger assistance? No.

 

[edwin_m]

If they've pre-booked passenger assistance? No.

People shouldn't have to book assistance just because they're a bit slower than average and the platform is announced a ridiculously short time before departure. This is not only demeaning to the passengers concerned, but also a wasteful use of staff who should be available for those that really need their help. And if the staff responsible for passenger assistance know where the train will be then why can't that information be made available to everyone else?

 

[damo44]

Yes, the way every station other than London and Glasgow/Edinburgh termini are operated

Any idea why it is these three cities that do this?

Living in Solihull and having worked extensively in London, I'm very familiar with the Euston scrum and it's slightly more genteel Marylebone cousin. I didn't know it was also common in Glasgow and Edinburgh - I don't think I've visited either of them by train.

There's other large cities with termini (or at least with some terminating) platforms). I'm just curious why this may only happen in those three places.