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New New Street

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I got quite excited today as the new Birmingham New Street is beginning to reveal itself. Without trying I ended up in the part of the old station that is being renovated. We were hemmed in between barricades but you could get the occasional glimpse of the new glass roofed atrium. Some parts of the platforms have been opened up too to reveal the islands. After being use to such narrow platforms it seems so spacious. Hopefully not long now and the whole redevelopment will be finished and open.
 
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Amphora

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Was there the other week. Hell it's dingy, stench of diesel fumes knocks ya' bandy. Bugger all in terms of benches either. Can't see why, there's plenty room at the platform ends.
 

causton

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Was there the other week. Hell it's dingy, stench of diesel fumes knocks ya' bandy. Bugger all in terms of benches either. Can't see why, there's plenty room at the platform ends.

Think the idea is you stay upstairs (you know, where the shops and restaurants are, $$$ ;) ) and then go down (if you can find a working escalator) close to the time your train is due in.
 

Amphora

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Think the idea is you stay upstairs (you know, where the shops and restaurants are, $$$ ;) ) and then go down (if you can find a working escalator) close to the time your train is due in.

In the 80s, Causton, they had 'dollies', parcel type trollies that were left on platforms all the time. They were great as they allowed folk to sprawl !

Thiv long gone tho', shame, you could almost sleep on em'.
 

RichmondCommu

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In the 80s, Causton, they had 'dollies', parcel type trollies that were left on platforms all the time. They were great as they allowed folk to sprawl !

Thiv long gone tho', shame, you could almost sleep on em'.

The only people who I ever saw sprawled on those were spotters! No one else would have been prepared to get their clothes dirty!
 
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Still a lot of work to at the platforms level. I don't think the smell of diesel fumes will ever go. I thought the escalators had been more reliable in the last few weeks. Despite all this work we still will still have to live with the decisions made in the fifties and sixties.
 

Amphora

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The only people who I ever saw sprawled on those were spotters! No one else would have been prepared to get their clothes dirty!

You're quite right RC, I woz one of em'. Plenty banter round' dollies, who'd seen what, where, when etc
 

Blindtraveler

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This particular punter woant give it the seal of approval till (if)? They reopen a branch of Burger King!
 

satisnek

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Think the idea is you stay upstairs (you know, where the shops and restaurants are, $$$ ;) ) and then go down (if you can find a working escalator) close to the time your train is due in.

That was the idea behind Birmingham International when it was built in the 1970s (thinking about it, it was an early example of the airline model being applied to railways). Of course, things didn't quite turn out as planned.
 
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Smethwickian

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Despite all this work we still will still have to live with the decisions made in the fifties and sixties.

Yes, available platform space will always suffer now from the station being hemmed in in the way it is.

But sadly when the last massive rebuild took place in the Beeching era (the Bull Ring shopping centre opened in 1964, didn't it?) the predominant idea was slimming down and reducing any spare railway capacity and no one would have thought it logical to add anything more to Birmingham New Street 'just in case' it would be needed 50 years hence.

Vague ideas in the 70s and 80s about increasing capacity by putting some of the suburban lines, notably Cross City, underground through the city centre never went beyond planners' idealist wish-lists.
 

sd0733

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September 20th is the date we've been told for being open. Apparantly the plan is that platforms will be called at the last minute which is why there are all the waiting rooms upstairs but the real reasoning behind that has to be to increase sales in the shops/cafes!
 

edwin_m

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Looking at Rail Map Online and swapping current and old map bases, it appears that the "footprint" of the current station includes almost all of that of the previous one. This is confirmed by the cutting walls in all four corners of the station being brick which is obviously older than the concrete of the station itself. The exception is an area on the south side that might have made a few shortish bay platforms but no through platforms (the tracks each end would have been at almost 90 degrees to each other) but would have made the throats evan more complicated than they are today. New Street also took over the small road that ran between the LNWR and Midland side. The plan linked below shows that prior to the 1960s rebuilding, New Street had eight through platforms and six bays, plus three short sidings in the southern area mentioned. The current station has 12 through platforms (each of which can take two short trains) and one bay.

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrbns_str1310.htm

So I think the 1960s station made a pretty good job of providing the maximum platforms in the available land, and resulted in considerable increase of capacity over what preceded it.

I agree that increasing the footprint would not have been considered either then or now, as due to the curvature on the south side this would have involved taking a slice of the main shopping area to the north.

By contrast Snow Hill had eight through platforms at its maximum (four long platform faces, each with different numbers either end of crossovers to through tracks) and four bays. Closing this station resulted in a net reduction of platform capacity in central Birmingham despite the extra platforms at New Street. The current Snow Hill has only three through platforms, with the possibility of a fourth being restored when the Midland Metro moves out.
 

Minilad

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September 20th is the date we've been told for being open. Apparantly the plan is that platforms will be called at the last minute which is why there are all the waiting rooms upstairs but the real reasoning behind that has to be to increase sales in the shops/cafes!

What a great idea. Loads of people with trolly bags dashing onto unreliable escalators. What could possibly go wrong
 

trainophile

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What a great idea. Loads of people with trolly bags dashing onto unreliable escalators. What could possibly go wrong

Crazy, considering most if not all the platforms have an A, B and C end, and are a lot harder to find than those at Euston. Also they need to improve the signage at the bottom of the escalators, as it's not that easy to locate your A, B or C departure point, especially in a crowd.
 

TheKnightWho

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September 20th is the date we've been told for being open. Apparantly the plan is that platforms will be called at the last minute which is why there are all the waiting rooms upstairs but the real reasoning behind that has to be to increase sales in the shops/cafes!

I had a nightmare experience with this on a TGV at Gare L'Est the other day. 6 minutes before departure they announce a 16 carriage train, with only one entrance onto the platform from the very end. We didn't depart until we were over 10 minutes late. I really don't see how they think it's workable.
 

Seacook

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Crazy, considering most if not all the platforms have an A, B and C end, and are a lot harder to find than those at Euston. Also they need to improve the signage at the bottom of the escalators, as it's not that easy to locate your A, B or C departure point, especially in a crowd.

All of the through platforms have A and B ends. The sole bay platform is 4C and there are are no others marked C. It is also a good deal easier to locate your platform than at, say, Edinburgh, or King's Cross.
 

Bletchleyite

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Racist:roll:

Eh? What's racist about commenting on an accent without criticising it, particularly as said station has a Brummie autoannouncer?
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On the further subject of the Euston scrum, I'd suggest the Manchester Picc P13/14 approach to be better - put "wait in lounge" on the screens but still show the platforms for anyone who would just prefer to go down. After all, unless Network Rail withdraw their open data projects, increasing numbers of people will just get the information from RTT and the likes anyway.
 

Aldaniti

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Horrible station, has been for years, always will be. You can polish a turd but it will still be a turd. An ICBM direct hit might improve matters though..... ;)
 
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September 20. I cannot see everything being finished. Hopefully enough will be done to make a smooth first day.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I guess the footprint had to stay the same in the sixties so they squeezed as much as they could in what feels like the basement of a shopping centre. Sad when you think of other great cities like Liverpool, York, Leeds and Bristol.
 

trainophile

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All of the through platforms have A and B ends. The sole bay platform is 4C and there are are no others marked C. It is also a good deal easier to locate your platform than at, say, Edinburgh, or King's Cross.

Thanks for clarifying. My BHM-LIV train almost always seems to go from 4C so I thought other platforms might have a C as well.

Agree about Edinburgh, it's a nightmare!
 
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It did not like to mention polishing. Birmingham does deserve a better gateway. Snow Hill is not much better than New Street. Moor Street is lovely but it is not really the main station. We will soon have Curzon Street which hopefully will be magnificent.
 
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