New Menai Bridge proposed, should it have a rail aspect?

[brad465]

Proposals for a third crossing to Anglesey have resurfaced, but there is no mention of rail being involved, even though the current railway crosses the Britannia bridge on a second deck as a single line. Should the new bridge offer to take the railway with it as a double-track setup? I think if there is demand for another road crossing here there must also be potential to increase rail patronage as well.

M4 junction closures and new Menai crossing in plans to tackle congestion on Welsh roads

Welsh government will also re-examine the case for a new motorway in proposals announced today.

www.bbc.co.uk

Junctions on the M4 in Newport could close, and a new bridge built across the Menai Strait, as part of Welsh government plans for two notorious transport bottlenecks.

It will also begin an 18-month project looking at a range of "roads-based" options for the M4, that could include a new motorway or expanding the Brynglas Tunnels.

Ministers are considering whether to close or partially close three junctions, potentially by 2028. However, a review has warned that closing them could cause increased congestion and noise on alternative routes.

It is not clear at this stage how anything would be paid for - the new Menai crossing could cost up to £700m and take up to 10 years to be built
...

The Welsh government said it would immediately recommence development work for a third Menai crossing.
Plans had been formally scrapped three years ago, although a year later the then Labour Transport Secretary Ken Skates suggested it was back on the agenda.
Officials believe a new crossing could cost around £670m, with development work taking up to two years. It would be at least eight to ten years before the crossing was built.
The A55 is currently carried over the Menai by the Britannia Bridge, and unlike the rest of the road it is a single carriageway.
The Menai Suspension Bridge has been restricted to vehicles under 7.5 tonnes since repair works began in October 2022.
The government has ruled out a three-lane tidal-flow operation on the Britannia Bridge after a review found significant safety and operational concerns.
Hooper said the government would invest in wind deflectors, variable speed limits and other improvements on the bridge.
But he said: "These measures will not replace the need for a third crossing."

 

[krus_aragon]

The obvious (to me) option would be to make provision on the new bridge to take the various pipes and utilities that are currently on the alignment of the Britannia Bridge's second track. Get those out of the way, and then we can reinstate the second track where it originally was.

I'm not sure how helpful redoubling the Britannia would be if we didn't also split the long block sections on the western side of Anglesey, though. That is probably the bigger choke-point.

 

[MarkyT]

The obvious (to me) option would be to make provision on the new bridge to take the various pipes and utilities that are currently on the alignment of the Britannia Bridge's second track. Get those out of the way, and then we can reinstate the second track where it originally was.

I'm not sure how helpful redoubling the Britannia would be if we didn't also split the long block sections on the western side of Anglesey, though. That is probably the bigger choke-point.

A double-track bridge would help, no doubt, but an intermediate block signal in each direction between Gaerwen and Valley would improve capacity and flexibility even further. Signalling will need changing anyway, so perhaps the changes could be bundled together.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The obvious (to me) option would be to make provision on the new bridge to take the various pipes and utilities that are currently on the alignment of the Britannia Bridge's second track. Get those out of the way, and then we can reinstate the second track where it originally was.

I'm not sure how helpful redoubling the Britannia would be if we didn't also split the long block sections on the western side of Anglesey, though. That is probably the bigger choke-point.

Was double track ever reinstated on the 'new' Britannia Bridge - I thought the single-track merely swapped sides as the tubes were removed?

Is there really a capacity issue - there is no freight left and the passenger service is pretty thin? Foot passengers for Ireland are pretty meagre these days, sadly.

 

[edwin_m]

The columns that support the road deck may mean there isn't enough clearance for a second rail track.

 

[MarkyT]

The columns that support the road deck may mean there isn't enough clearance for a second rail track.

It looks ok on the rail deck itself, but there might be support columns in the way of a second track on the road approaches, particularly the curved one on the Anglesey side. Once a new bridge was in service, these might be closed for a rebuild.

My question is whether there is really enough road traffic to justify another bridge, since 'land bridge' traffic across the UK between mainland EU and Ireland more than halved following Brexit.

 

[krus_aragon]

Was double track ever reinstated on the 'new' Britannia Bridge - I thought the single-track merely swapped sides as the tubes were removed?

I was thinking of reinstating in the "original-original" location, i.e. where the tubes were. I don't believe the rebuilt rail deck ever had two tracks present.

The columns that support the road deck may mean there isn't enough clearance for a second rail track.

I've never measured things, but by eye it seemed that there's ample space between the support collumns for both tracks to be reinstated (utility pipes notwithstanding). I'd be gobsmacked if the engineers tasked with rebuilding the bridge hadn't made provision for this at the time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 20:34 ==

My question is whether there is really enough road traffic to justify another bridge, since 'land bridge' traffic across the UK between mainland EU and Ireland more than halved following Brexit.

Peak traffic leaving the island in the morning, and returning in the evening, is pretty heavy, but the tailbacks are not totally outrageous by the standards of a large city like Manchester or London. The big issue is resilience: if one of the two bridges is out of use for some reason (high winds, engineering work, or a road accident) then everything in the area goes to pot: you may as well give up going to work if your commute takes you over the straits - in either direction. The fact that this is an arterial route for road freight towards Dublin and Ireland still has some bearing on things: there are still pleny of HGVs travelling to and from Holyhead, which are all banned from the Menai Bridge at present due to its age and condition.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

My question is whether there is really enough road traffic to justify another bridge, since 'land bridge' traffic across the UK between mainland EU and Ireland more than halved following Brexit.

The direct ferries between Ireland and France are doing very well, apparently, as they avoid the hassle of the paperwork for traversing the UK. All could change if we ever rejoin the EU of course...

 

[MarkyT]

Peak traffic leaving the island in the morning, and returning in the evening, is pretty heavy, but the tailbacks are not totally outrageous by the standards of a large city like Manchester or London. The big issue is resilience: if one of the two bridges is out of use for some reason (high winds, engineering work, or a road accident) then everything in the area goes to pot: you may as well give up going to work if your commute takes you over the straits - in either direction. The fact that this is an arterial route for road freight towards Dublin and Ireland still has some bearing on things: there are still pleny of HGVs travelling to and from Holyhead, which are all banned from the Menai Bridge at present due to its age and condition.

The resilience argument is very persuasive for an important freight route for UK - Ireland, regardless of the EU aspect.

I guess the only realistic place for another crossing is fairly close alongside the Britannia Bridge. Easiest for quick diversions in the event of accidents, weather restrictions, or maintenance, without funnelling all the traffic over the suspension bridge and through the settlement that surrounds the A5 on the Anglesey side.

 

[WAB]

Is there really a capacity issue - there is no freight left and the passenger service is pretty thin? Foot passengers for Ireland are pretty meagre these days, sadly.

There really isn't a capacity issue. Aside from occasional peak days, the ferry traffic is pretty limited, as you say. I'd argue that west of Bangor is overserved, with two or three trains many hours to London, Manchester and Cardiff through pretty thin territory, with the five-carriage trains in particular being generally excessive for the traffic on offer. I'd argue that there would be scope to turn more trains around at Bangor if there were suitable turnback facilities there.

 

[MarkyT]

There really isn't a capacity issue. Aside from occasional peak days, the ferry traffic is pretty limited, as you say. I'd argue that west of Bangor is overserved, with two or three trains many hours to London, Manchester and Cardiff through pretty thin territory, with the five-carriage trains in particular being generally excessive for the traffic on offer. I'd argue that there would be scope to turn more trains around at Bangor if there were suitable turnback facilities there.

A branch to Caernarfon would make a good reversing siding.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I think the main perceived need is for a reliable replacement of the road suspension bridge for purely local traffic, not touching the Britannia bridge.
Neither the M4 scheme at Newport nor the new Menai crossing are certain to go ahead - there are many problems before any spades get deployed, not least funding.
When last in office (during the Lab/Plaid coalition years) Plaid had the transport portfolio and cancelled the new Dee crossing at Queensferry which is another strategic link.

 

[MarkyT]

Here's a video responding to a scheme consultation about a decade ago, with an interesting proposal!