• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

New Measurement Train

Status
Not open for further replies.

RobShipway

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2009
Messages
3,337
With the demise of both the Cross Country (XC) and Great Western Railway (GWR) HST sets, what future is there for the New Measurement Train should Scotrail decide to withdraw it's HST sets?

If no other use can be found for them, could the MK5A carriages be turned into 'New New Measurement Trains'?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
19,667
With the demise of both the Cross Country (XC) and Great Western Railway (GWR) HST sets, what future is there for the New Measurement Train should Scotrail decide to withdraw it's HST sets?

If no other use can be found for them, could the MK5A carriages be turned into 'New New Measurement Trains'?
Depends if its perceived that more banana's are needed. Likely no.
 

JamesT

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2015
Messages
4,845
With the demise of both the Cross Country (XC) and Great Western Railway (GWR) HST sets, what future is there for the New Measurement Train should Scotrail decide to withdraw it's HST sets?

If no other use can be found for them, could the MK5A carriages be turned into 'New New Measurement Trains'?
Why would TOCs withdrawing HSTs affect the NMT? It’s not maintained by them.
If it becomes unacceptable to use the Class 43 power cars, I would imagine it would cheaper to convert the existing trailers to work with a more modern locomotive than trying to fit the equipment to a new set of carriages. Unless there’s any indication of structural issues with the trailers?
 

RobShipway

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2009
Messages
3,337
Why would TOCs withdrawing HSTs affect the NMT? It’s not maintained by them.
If it becomes unacceptable to use the Class 43 power cars, I would imagine it would cheaper to convert the existing trailers to work with a more modern locomotive than trying to fit the equipment to a new set of carriages. Unless there’s any indication of structural issues with the trailers?
First thought would be availability of parts. Yes, the NMT could get parts from coaching stock and class 43 locos being withdrawn. But with some going off to Mexico, the parts may get less and less quicker than expected. Hence, why I wondered if a New Measurement Train would be on the books to be created.

Anyway, thank you for the input all.
 

CarrotPie

On Moderation
Joined
18 Mar 2021
Messages
1,128
Location
First thought would be availability of parts. Yes, the NMT could get parts from coaching stock and class 43 locos being withdrawn. But with some going off to Mexico, the parts may get less and less quicker than expected. Hence, why I wondered if a New Measurement Train would be on the books to be created.
Considering how long some of the IM fleet has lasted (Mentor *cough*), I doubt an NNMT (New New Measurement Train) will be needed until at last the 2030s. If you think spare part availability for the current ageing fleet is bad, you don't want to know what NR's sellotape budget would look like with those CAF embarrassments in their fleet!
 

D365

Veteran Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
13,170
Colas is acquiring / has acquired more Class 43s to operate test trains. They’re maintained by LORAM in Derby, which appears to specialise in ‘oddball’ yellow locomotives and measurement vehicles.
 

172007

Member
Joined
2 Jan 2021
Messages
1,144
Location
West Mids
I have always wondered when seeing the eclectic collection of vehicles and propulsion NR use for monitoring I have always struggled to work out if it is efficient, efficient in an accountancy sense (keeping stuff going and avoiding a large capital expenditure off the annual books) or just downright a money pit. We have seen class 73 and Mk3 DVT conversions that seem to have beem a waste of money. It's all pretty ancient and the heritage loco's that power some of it must be fuel and maintenance hungry.

Would it not be cheaper long term for a few short lengh class 80X's and say a few 195/6/7 units be converted. Think that lot would cover all the high-speed requirement for pathing and also pretty much be a go anywhere fleet with the 19X's. Modern, quiet, fuel efficient and less pollution. Maintenance and spares would also be so much easier.
 

CarrotPie

On Moderation
Joined
18 Mar 2021
Messages
1,128
Location
I have always wondered when seeing the eclectic collection of vehicles and propulsion NR use for monitoring I have always struggled to work out if it is efficient, efficient in an accountancy sense (keeping stuff going and avoiding a large capital expenditure off the annual books) or just downright a money pit. We have seen class 73 and Mk3 DVT conversions that seem to have beem a waste of money. It's all pretty ancient and the heritage loco's that power some of it must be fuel and maintenance hungry.
I suspect (having just read a book on the matter) it's highly efficient, with drivers and OTTs having lots of experience and knowledge in operating their type of traction/monitoring equipment. Class 73s routinely operate RTTs in Juiceland too, so it's not that much of a waste. In terms of locos, however, it's a case of whatever they can get their mitts on (necessarily diesel).
Would it not be cheaper long term for a few short lengh class 80X's and say a few 195/6/7 units be converted. Think that lot would cover all the high-speed requirement for pathing and also pretty much be a go anywhere fleet with the 19X's. Modern, quiet, fuel efficient and less pollution. Maintenance and spares would also be so much easier.
Route availability is major point here. The HST is a proven train that has higher differential PSRs on not insignificant parts of the network. They also spent much time gathering gauging data for the IETs when they were introduced! Bear in mind that 950001 was also purpose built, essentially what you're suggesting with the 19x series but without needing so much sellotape. They often use locos such as the 67 and 68 (modern), but the reason for the 37s and 43s is the proven design and the need to cover diesel-only loops, junctions and curves. What allows 73s to run in Juiceland is the fact that there is very minimal freight infrastructure, which means everything* has a juice rail. 73s are also bi-mode so that helps, I suppose :D

*except for freight yards and disused sidings/crossovers
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top