Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
How will new lockdown affect driver training. I’m due to start my training with a new toc shortly, as a qualified driver.
will we be able to start the training or just sit at home ?
Every TOC will need to adjust their trainings to the new rules but also they will need to check all options available to them. For example, if schools will stay open does it mean that training may go ahead as well? They could move around some parts of the training and focus on what is possible to complete through Zoom for the first month before coming back to classes.
Myself, I think every TOC will come with different approach to this.
How will new lockdown affect driver training. I’m due to start my training with a new toc shortly, as a qualified driver.
will we be able to start the training or just sit at home ?
Entirely depends on what the workplace restrictions actually are. And what the guidance for employers is. I imagine it will (sadly) be much the same as March and sitting at home.
You being a qualified driver might improve prospects, but you'd still need fleet handling from a trainer and that might be banned - either by employer or union.
How will new lockdown affect driver training. I’m due to start my training with a new toc shortly, as a qualified driver.
will we be able to start the training or just sit at home ?
This has been sprung by BJ at short notice, and the industry will not have been expecting it. Furthermore it’s kicked off over the weekend which won’t help.
So the answer is probably no one will know for a few days yet.
We have weekly covid testing for those in training bubbles and I think this is in common with other TOCs, so I don't see why training should be affected. You'd think that with weekly Asymptomatic testing that the safest place to be right now is in a training bubble. That said, given the utterly hysterical response to Covid, from both within and without the industry, who knows. Hopefully training won't be affected but I wouldn't bet on it.
Train Driving is Key Work so I would imagine TOCs/FOCs will do all they can do keep the training going. There was optimism from the Scientists looking forward to Spring in the announcement, all the more reason for companies to do all they can.
Just a constant cycle of national lockdown, local lockdown.
You can't make any progress as a trainee being stuck at home. As long as the drivers/operational staff don't mind having trainees with them I don't see why work can't continue.
This should be different to March in that the policies have been brought in to allow training to continue, and those who are still at home will be at home until the policy for their specific training has been finalised, although this will remain on going as it has been for months. I can’t see it all reverting to square one again as that would make no sense as mitigation’s have been put in place now such as Covid testing for trainee drivers on a weekly basis and COVID compliant training venues. Training is key to keeping the country running, so I also can’t see any Government restrictions having a bearing on this.
We were getting comms saying our group of trainees would be going back soon, as the previous group had already gone back.
However, we also get news that trainees have had to be sent home to self-isolate because their DI's wife contracted Covid. Then the DI got Covid. Then trainee is told they might have to wait some more because no other instructors are available.
We were getting comms saying our group of trainees would be going back soon, as the previous group had already gone back.
However, we also get news that trainees have had to be sent home to self-isolate because their DI's wife contracted Covid. Then the DI got Covid. Then trainee is told they might have to wait some more because no other instructors are available.
It's very unfortunate when trainee's have to self isolate due to their potential exposure to the virus. However, it shows the integrity of the bubble system works as minimal people have been exposed. There will be inevitable delays in training whilst this goes on, but for now it is the agreed method of training, it works and it is absolutely essential that training, road learning, traction courses etc continue.
Boris was very clear that with the exception of those who can work from home and those who work for businesses forced to close, it'll be a case of carrying on as before with no new rules or restrictions. It was actually the clearest message in his speech, which came across as rushed and lacking in detail.
It's very unfortunate when trainee's have to self isolate due to their potential exposure to the virus. However, it shows the integrity of the bubble system works as minimal people have been exposed. There will be inevitable delays in training whilst this goes on, but for now it is the agreed method of training, it works and it is absolutely essential that training, road learning, traction courses etc continue.
Oh absolutely. Praise where it's due, they are being really conscientious about the bubble system. It is frustrating but we'd all rather be safe than sorry.
You may have noticed no-one in government has used the term 'national lockdown', they want it to be seen effectively as new stricter tier 4 restrictions being applied across England for 4 weeks.
I doubt ASLEF will be bothered about a question of semantics. The government could call the new measures “Peter”, but Peter is still a national lockdown
I’m informed by an ASLEF rep locally that they are going to keep going with training as the delays from the first lockdown are now too great. Lots of early / sudden retirements or what not from people including some going to job share; so the pressure is even greater even with a thinned service (just end up with more spares in case of a person going down).
Interesting to see how this works with the recruitment process e.g. driver testing or interviews. If the industry pauses again will that cause much more damage long term?
Interesting to see how this works with the recruitment process e.g. driver testing or interviews. If the industry pauses again will that cause much more damage long term?
Entirely depends on how well each TOC looks compared to their establishment. With franchises also coming to an end, there will be no more handing over to the next group with poor succession planning of drivers. So some which might have been ending (Crosscountry, Southeastern) might be in more trouble than others.
I doubt ASLEF will be bothered about a question of semantics. The government could call the new measures “Peter”, but Peter is still a national lockdown
It's not a full lockdown though. It's a selective lockdown and the PM has specifically said those who cannot work from home are to go to work and carry on as 'normal.' Teachers will be expected to go to their jobs and carry on doing exactly what they've done since September, it's only outside their working hours when any different rules might apply for teachers e.g. they can't go to the pub after work. The only possible argument ASLEF might have for a change to training programme is if there are trainee drivers or driver instructors who were on the vulnerable list, who have not been told to stay at home and shield but have been told to limit contact with others as much as possible.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Ironically it seems Northern have the worse driver training problems and pre-COVID they are the operator who were already running fewer services than what was specified in the contract with Arriva.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
ASLEF don’t need to make any argument, they don’t need the PM’s permission, or permission from the TOC or FOC. It’s an agreement between ASLEF and associated TOCs / FOCs. And if they deem the lockdown is unsafe for training, they’ll withdraw from the agreement.
Hopefully it won’t come to that. However, you seem to be under some serious misapprehensions about how these training agreements operate.
No word yet of anyone at my TOC being sent home - seems to be carrying on as before. My TOC brought people back to the classroom before the first lockdown was lifted and I have a feeling they are pushing to get people passed out due to driver shortage.
Teachers will be expected to go to their jobs and carry on doing exactly what they've done since September, it's only outside their working hours when any different rules might apply for teachers e.g. they can't go to the pub after work. The only possible argument ASLEF might have for a change to training programme is if there are trainee drivers or driver instructors who were on the vulnerable list, who have not been told to stay at home and shield but have been told to limit contact with others as much as possible.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
There's trainees and instructors family members to also think of. Maybe they live with or look after a vulnerable person. A colleague of mine, a trainee, has had to self-isolate because her instructor's wife got Covid, then he got Covid. Now she is waiting for him to recover or to have an alternative interim instructor. Staff messrooms, break areas, and training rooms are operating at limited capacity in order to maintain social distancing. The TOC has a duty of care to its employees and passengers to limit the spread as much as possible.
Ah yes, teachers will be *expected* to continue as per normal. To be heroes just like NHS staff. Key workers shouldn't have to be heroes because that implies there's a massive risk to them. Thousands of teachers want schools to close, because it's blatantly clear that a lockdown is not as effective when schools and universities are an engine for virus transmission. My partner teaches in higher education and says there's a total lack of staff welfare.
ASLEF don’t need to make any argument, they don’t need the PM’s permission, or permission from the TOC or FOC. It’s an agreement between ASLEF and associated TOCs / FOCs. And if they deem the lockdown is unsafe for training, they’ll withdraw from the agreement.
No I don't, so perhaps you could enlighten me with why ASLEF might think carrying out training is fine on Wednesday 4th but not on Thursday 5th. If anything people being told to restrict their non-essential activities should mean the virus is less likely to be circulating as much during the English 'lockdown' than they day before it starts.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
There's trainees and instructors family members to also think of. Maybe they live with or look after a vulnerable person. A colleague of mine, a trainee, has had to self-isolate because her instructor's wife got Covid, then he got Covid. Now she is waiting for him to recover or to have an alternative interim instructor. Staff messrooms, break areas, and training rooms are operating at limited capacity in order to maintain social distancing. The TOC has a duty of care to its employees and passengers to limit the spread as much as possible.
Ah yes, teachers will be *expected* to continue as per normal. To be heroes just like NHS staff. Key workers shouldn't have to be heroes because that implies there's a massive risk to them. Thousands of teachers want schools to close, because it's blatantly clear that a lockdown is not as effective when schools and universities are an engine for virus transmission. My partner teaches in higher education and says there's a total lack of staff welfare.
With regards to your first paragraph. What's changed? Employers were supposed to make workplaces as COVID safe as possible months ago and people have had to self-isolate for months, so any sensible train operator will have planned for some staff self-isolating in their training plan.
Teachers are the high profile example and I'm guessing there's really two reasons for the government wanting schools and colleges to remain open:
1. So children don't get behind.
2. So parents of children carry on doing their jobs.
I wouldn't be surprised if childcare is not classed as valid reason to be furloughed this time. I strongly get the impression the government hopes those working in hospitality and tourism will be furloughed and a limited number of employees from businesses who supply them and no-one else. Everyone else is expected to work, either from home or their workplace unless there's a medical reason why they can't work or they don't still have a job. There's no key worker guidance, everyone who can't work from home who has work to do is expected to carry on as normal, not just teachers or train drivers. It includes warehouse workers, delivery workers, office workers who can't work from home*, shop workers, cleaners, delivery drivers, construction workers, telephone engineers, opticians, dentists etc. Also there's none of the essential work only this time, if you have a dental checkup it's going ahead, it's not being postponed because it's non-urgent, the same if you want an additional phone line fitted at your home or you want a second pair of glasses.
* e.g. because they have to respond to postal mail or because they don't have a suitable broadband line to connect to the work network.
No I don't, so perhaps you could enlighten me with why ASLEF might think carrying out training is fine on Wednesday 4th but not on Thursday 5th. If anything people being told to restrict their non-essential activities should mean the virus is less likely to be circulating as much during the English 'lockdown' than they day before it starts.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
With regards to your first paragraph. What's changed? Employers were supposed to make workplaces as COVID safe as possible months ago and people have had to self-isolate for months, so any sensible train operator will have planned for some staff self-isolating in their training plan.
Teachers are the high profile example and I'm guessing there's really two reasons for the government wanting schools and colleges to remain open:
1. So children don't get behind.
2. So parents of children carry on doing their jobs.
I wouldn't be surprised if childcare is not classed as valid reason to be furloughed this time. I strongly get the impression the government hopes those working in hospitality and tourism will be furloughed and a limited number of employees from businesses who supply them and no-one else. Everyone else is expected to work, either from home or their workplace unless there's a medical reason why they can't work or they don't still have a job. There's no key worker guidance, everyone who can't work from home who has work to do is expected to carry on as normal, not just teachers or train drivers. It includes warehouse workers, delivery workers, office workers who can't work from home*, shop workers, cleaners, delivery drivers, construction workers, telephone engineers, opticians, dentists etc. Also there's none of the essential work only this time, if you have a dental checkup it's going ahead, it's not being postponed because it's non-urgent, the same if you want an additional phone line fitted at your home or you want a second pair of glasses.
* e.g. because they have to respond to postal mail or because they don't have a suitable broadband line to connect to the work network.
Technically you’re right in all you say, but this is the railway and sometimes Union Willy waving gets in the way.
The factors agreed between TOCs/FOCs, RICF and ASLEF were because of COVID, not the initial lockdown of the country. The agreed measures should be as current now, as they were when they were agreed.
In that case I'll just inform that what you said has no logic to it. I like logic so perhaps a good job I'm not a train driver then.
I live on a train line where Northern have been using the lack of trained drivers excuse for months. If ASLEF delay training for no good reason they'll become a public enemy like the RMT and Arriva already are around here.
We have had a number of issues with members trying to set up duplicate accounts in this forum.
Please note that we only allow one account per person, but if you find yourself in a situation in which you'd like a separate identity for this section then please contact us directly and explain your reasoning or concerns rather than setting up a separate new account.
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
