When the same scale of funding is thrown at Oxford (and everywhere else for that matter) I am sure they will.
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New interoperability Ticketing agreement for Cornwall
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On the Buses
Member
No that element is a commercial action. But the current day ticket price is very much a leisure product and generally discounted beyond the £15 in most cases where it is purchased.
Commendably brave. Hope the finances work out.
On the Buses
Member
We know how many we sell and what the actual yield is so we’re well informed.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
As I said on the other thread, an arbitrary "who runs a given bus service" split simply does not make sense. If one ticket for all of Cornwall is too expensive for some, and I can see why it might be, having it split into zones is the right way, not by operator.
There are some places, e.g. Greater Manchester, where a split by operator sort of is a zonal split. But in Cornwall the two main operators are rather intertwined in what they serve, so it doesn't really work.
The two operators are not in competition, so that part of the dereg argument does not apply either. Go Ahead are basically operating stuff First don't want.
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You created that thread apparently not to celebrate that Oxford had a multi operator ticket but to complain that cheaper tickets were still available in Oxford so orthe people are not complaining about the concept of multi operator tickets, just your insistence that cheaper tickets should be available as well . Both Cornwall and Oxford have tickets that are available on multiple operators so (in theory) you should be happy. Oxford has cheaper tickets that offer less facilities and Cornwall will have (when it introduces town tickets). For some reason you are happy that cheaper tickets are available by area but object if cheaper tickets can be obtained by other means (such as in Oxford).So why is this good news when people on this thread
Oxford rationalisation - but keeping single company tickets!
Routes in Oxford are going to be rationalised. Roughly speaking, Oxford Bus or Stagecoach will withdraw from certain corridors so that only one operator runs all services on that corridor instead of both companies running alternate buses. https://www.oxfordbus.co.uk/network-review...www.railforums.co.uk
seem to think that it is better to keep single company tickets?
johncrossley
Established Member
To be consistent with your earlier posts you should prefer that operators offer full Cornwall tickets that undercut the all operator ticket. Similarly you should prefer operators to be offering cheaper single company tickets when all operator town tickets are introduced.
As others have said the new Cornwall arrangements offers the best of all worlds so I'm unsure what you're actually complaining about (possibly other then not having something to complain about!). As @On the Buses has said the Cornwall ticket isn't an all operator ticket; it's a single operator ticket that's accepted on other operators so you're suggesting I'd now prefer that each operator has a single operator ticket that undercuts it's own single operator ticket?
johncrossley
Established Member
Given that the prices are now the same for each company it is de facto an all operator ticket. I'm complaining about the inconsistency. You and others have defended single company tickets so robustly regarding Manchester and Oxford, yet don't seem to care about the effective removal of them in Cornwall. If you are happy with the removal of price differentials in Cornwall, then you should be happy with the removal of single company tickets elsewhere. So you shouldn't mind the Stagecoach Oxford ticket being valid on Oxford Bus Company (and vice versa) with no price difference.
This is a bit like saying if you're happy with Cheese then you should be happy with Ham! They are two different things. Whilst it's irrelevant to this thread, you appear to have an obsession that a company should not be allowed to offer better deals to customers if they can.
To be consistent with your previous arguments you should be complaining about the Cornwall arrangement because there is no actual 'multi operator ticket' so they're not removing single operator tickets in Cornwall. You buy a single operator ticket and it's available on multiple operators.
I'd say that would be great if that can be arranged, find any example where I've stated otherwise.
johncrossley
Established Member
Are you serious?! I can sort of understand a preference for single company tickets because passengers are saving money, even though I don't agree with it because of the implications for integration. But if passengers no longer get a discount for choosing a single company ticket that defeats the whole point of them! You must be winding me up!
GusB
Established Member
Time out! Could we please stick to discussing the merits or otherwise of the new ticketing situation in Cornwall, rather than getting bogged down in arguments about the situation in Oxford?
Dai Corner
Established Member
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I must admit I'm struggling to understand the difference between a single-operator ticket valid on multiple operators and a multi-operator ticket.
Goldfish62
Veteran Member
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The £3 town zone day ticket will be exceptionally good value. Penzance for example means unlimited travel by any operator from Marazion to Mousehole, Sheffield to Crowlas. Significantly cheaper than a return ticket.
Usually, the difference is how the revenue is apportioned
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Having had a digital detox (whilst eating my own body weight in calorific food) yesterday, I pop in to see this thread.
It's rather sad to see that rather applaud the news that bus services are made more affordable and improved, some are using it as a means to push their usual established views.
If we were to cast our minds back about 10 years ago in Cornwall, there was an ailing First bus dominated by elderly ill-kempt vehicles in the west, whilst Western Greyhound were dominating eastern part of the county with a deteriorating fleet of van derived minibuses though with some (though insufficient) investment in new vehicles.
This latest move is the latest stage on a journey to invigorating bus services in a county that has long been typified by a strong seasonal bias, a low wage economy and pockets of extreme deprivation amongst some extremely expensive and desirable tourist traps. Both tendered and commercial operations are now typified by modern fleets of well presented vehicles. There is genuine innovation in new leisure products AND superb marketing to back this up. Roadside infrastructure has been extensively upgraded so that bus shelters no longer resemble Victorian pissoirs. Bus stations have been upgraded - Penzance and St Ives benefiting in that regard.
As @On the Buses has indicated, there is more to come and we know the low fares pilot, with appropriate funding, will enable to take place. Whilst limited bus priority does exist in Truro (even after the Tregolls Road bus lane was abandoned after a month), there are certainly plenty of other places where help can be given to bus services and hopefully, that also forms part of the plan.
Therefore, we should actually applaud this latest, important, stage in the journey, not forget where we've come from, recognise the impact of funding from central and local government, and also recognise the roles of both First and Go Ahead too.
It's rather sad to see that rather applaud the news that bus services are made more affordable and improved, some are using it as a means to push their usual established views.
If we were to cast our minds back about 10 years ago in Cornwall, there was an ailing First bus dominated by elderly ill-kempt vehicles in the west, whilst Western Greyhound were dominating eastern part of the county with a deteriorating fleet of van derived minibuses though with some (though insufficient) investment in new vehicles.
This latest move is the latest stage on a journey to invigorating bus services in a county that has long been typified by a strong seasonal bias, a low wage economy and pockets of extreme deprivation amongst some extremely expensive and desirable tourist traps. Both tendered and commercial operations are now typified by modern fleets of well presented vehicles. There is genuine innovation in new leisure products AND superb marketing to back this up. Roadside infrastructure has been extensively upgraded so that bus shelters no longer resemble Victorian pissoirs. Bus stations have been upgraded - Penzance and St Ives benefiting in that regard.
As @On the Buses has indicated, there is more to come and we know the low fares pilot, with appropriate funding, will enable to take place. Whilst limited bus priority does exist in Truro (even after the Tregolls Road bus lane was abandoned after a month), there are certainly plenty of other places where help can be given to bus services and hopefully, that also forms part of the plan.
Therefore, we should actually applaud this latest, important, stage in the journey, not forget where we've come from, recognise the impact of funding from central and local government, and also recognise the roles of both First and Go Ahead too.
Goldfish62
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It is all rather bizarre but then elsewhere on this forum you will find those that argue against established norms and consider that the seats in IETs are actually very comfortable or that cutting back bus services is a good thing.
For me this first step in the fares initiative is one of the most positive things that's ever happened to Cornwall's bus services.
I am confused by this; I've looked through the thread and I can only assume you are talking about one person's view, unless there is something I've missed.
The best thing to do is to quote the post(s) you disagree with, and present your own case. That makes it much easier for people to understand what it is you are disagreeing with.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
There were two views that were overly negative and in different ways. Just feel better to focus on the positive aspects in life....
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Exactly this.
This is really positive news and is the latest on a journey that we've seen in Cornwall to improve public transport. We've seen unprecedented investment in vehicles, improved services, and improved facilities and @On the Buses has indicated there's more to come over and above the low fares pilot.
I have been vocal about some of the failings in the 2020 tender change but this is really positive news.
Feel free to quote them and challenge them
On a positive note, this thread has been read by 287 members and only two of these have posted views perceived as negative
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
The views had already been challenged and dealt with by others including a moderator.Feel free to quote them and challenge them
Instead of focusing on that, I was saying that should be celebrating this positive development; another stage on an upward trajectory in a county where bus services have mirrored some of the societal issues of underinvestment and deprivation.
It's a good news story - that's all.
Yes, I agree it's good news. But when I read that "it's rather sad to see that rather applaud the news that bus services are made more affordable and improved, some are using it as a means to push their usual established views", this rang alarm bells for me and I had to read the entire thread to try to understand what those views were and who was being referred to.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
One part of one sentence in an overwhelmingly positive post.
I wish you a happy Christmas and recommend being less alarmed
I agree, but there seems to be limited press coverage. @On the Buses says that it is part of a series of improvements, but I am still puzzled why this part of the improvements is not being sung from the rooftops. If passengers are not informed, a)there will be some confusion on day one e.g. are you sure I can use this ticket on any bus back, and are you sure that is the corect (lower) price? , and b) prospective new passengers will not be attracted.
I think given the time of year and the government's present glitters about the pandemic the low key approach would be best. Possibly a message on the tickets to mention the scheme. I'm sure once the low fares scheme gets going any publicity will also mention the inter-availability.
Surfacing from some over indulgence I don’t see how this is anything other than a Good Thing. It will encourage tourists onto the buses and prevent the negatives when they find their ticket isn’t valid on all the buses. It is an attractive price and will no doubt be publicised appropriately at the right time. Yes it will save us enthusiasts some money but that’s not the point, it’s just a great thing to get visitors on the highway buses.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
As @On the Buses says in #17 and #28, it will be promoted. Given how good First are good in marketing (and who'd have said that line in 2011), I'd imagine that it will be sufficiently covered on social media and on vehicles, and would imagine Go Ahead will be doing so as well.
Well said @TheGrandWazoo. Cornwall by Kernow have previously used a softer launch approach with new products and initiatives and to my mind there is much to be said for 'getting it running and getting it working correctly' before going all-guns-blazing on the publicity front. Certainly we've probably all seen the damage (or perceived damage) that can be caused by heavily advertising a new initiative before everything is ready and bedded in. Indeed, we only need to think back to the Transport for Cornwall launch and the promises made by the council and Go Cornwall Bus to see the reputational damage that can be caused if promises are advertised, but left unfulfilled.
OntheBuses has explained the behind the scenes complexity of this launch and there may yet be some minor gremlins to iron out of the system. Clearly from OntheBuses comments this is a stage (albeit a significant one) in a longer journey of improvements and I'm sure Kernow will deploy their excellent publicity machine when they think it best to do so.
LIke others on this thread, I cannot see how this change to ticketing can be seen as anything other than a positive and excellent development and all parties involved deserve much credit.
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Hey @On the Buses do you know if the day adventure tickets will be part of this scheme?
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