New Cross Gate platform access restrictions

[bicbasher]

Recently a new footbridge was installed, connecting the island platforms 3-4 with the southbound platforms 1-2.

Now that the new footbridge has opened this week, there is no longer access from the concourse to 1-2, instead you have to walk via the island platforms where new signs (using the NR font instead of New Johnston) have been installed to direct passengers to the footbridge.

I suspect this is to coincide with lift installation work starting with 1-2, then 3-4.

As the new footbridge doesn't cover the London bound platform 5, this may lead to ELL and Southern metro stoppers not stopping at NXG when work commences there, unless a temporary entrance can be opened at the retail park next door.

 

[Skoodle]

There's an incident waiting to happen, when a West Croydon train empties in the evening rush hour and everyone crosses over, it's amazing how many people walk so close to the edge of Platform 3 and 4 despite trains speeding past at 60mph. Use your heads people!!

 

[maniacmartin]

The works will be worth it. New Cross Gate is in need of a lick of paint, and improving access is also a good thing.

Regarding opening the locked gate to the retail park - if only... it'd mean I don't have to lug shopping all the way up through the ticket office.

 

[bicbasher]

Regarding opening the locked gate to the retail park - if only... it'd mean I don't have to lug shopping all the way up through the ticket office.

The last time I used the Sainsburys next door, the walk between the supermarket and Platform 1 took longer than it would for a ELL service to reach Surrey Quays!

 

[Chrisgr31]

Wouldn't unlocking the gate mean you no longer required a lift to the platform anyway?

 

[Skoodle]

Yup, but not if you're heading southbound

 

[bicbasher]

I can't see how they'll be able to install a lift and a new stairwell from the concourse to the island platforms as it's short enough as it is.

However as the platforms are only served by 2tph in each direction, crossing the new footbridge via Platforms 1-2 to reach the concourse won't be a major inconvenience.

 

[maniacmartin]

Wouldn't unlocking the gate mean you no longer required a lift to the platform anyway?

Yes but it might impact revenue by bypassing the ticket barriers

 

[cle]

I can't see how they'll be able to install a lift and a new stairwell from the concourse to the island platforms as it's short enough as it is.

However as the platforms are only served by 2tph in each direction, crossing the new footbridge via Platforms 1-2 to reach the concourse won't be a major inconvenience.

For now... especially with an additional 2 ELL trains per hour planned each way, I'd expect to see the outer service increased to 4tph as part of the Thameslink project (all the Southern trains via Coulsdon South).

 

[bicbasher]

For now... especially with an additional 2 ELL trains per hour planned each way, I'd expect to see the outer service increased to 4tph as part of the Thameslink project (all the Southern trains via Coulsdon South).

The funding isn't currently available for the extra 2tph on the ELL. At a recent LOROL passenger board meeting, it was suggested to a member of the local transport committee I'm on that we should campaign for two of the 4tph which go to New Cross to be diverted to Crystal Palace instead.

However I agree that NXG should have 4tph on the island platforms post Thameslink.

 

[Bald Rick]

.

However I agree that NXG should have 4tph on the island platforms post Thameslink.

Very, very unlikely, at least in the peak. Not enough capacity to stop the trains.

 

[bicbasher]

Very, very unlikely, at least in the peak. Not enough capacity to stop the trains.

I should have said Off Peak.

Incidentally, it appears that the walkway and all three stairwells will be demolished to create space for a higher walkway with three lifts and stairs to the platforms.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Yes but it might impact revenue by bypassing the ticket barriers

True mind you need a lot of revenue to pay for a lift! Or could install barriers at the gate! Anyway in reality it would be a long way round for those that need the lift especially if changing trains.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Very, very unlikely, at least in the peak. Not enough capacity to stop the trains.

I was discussing this point this evening with a friend and saying one would think quite a lot of Southern passengers going to Canary Wharf would like to change at New Cross so their would be d3emand for stopping services but

• there is the capacity issue
• presumably a loss of revenue as they wouldnt go to Zone 1
• is it any quicker than London Bridge then Jubilee

 

[bicbasher]

I was discussing this point this evening with a friend and saying one would think quite a lot of Southern passengers going to Canary Wharf would like to change at New Cross so their would be d3emand for stopping services but

• there is the capacity issue
• presumably a loss of revenue as they wouldnt go to Zone 1
• is it any quicker than London Bridge then Jubilee

TfL's journey planner for 0830 on a weekday shows between 8-11 mins depending on the service via Canada Water. NXG to Canary Wharf via London Bridge is showing 23-25 mins.

Considering NXG to Canada Water is the busiest section of the ELL, people are already using this route and Southern have lost revenue from Sydenham line passengers due to this.

 

[asylumxl]

TfL's journey planner for 0830 on a weekday shows between 8-11 mins depending on the service via Canada Water. NXG to Canary Wharf via London Bridge is showing 23-25 mins.

But journey planners add excessive amounts of time for connections. In reality the difference won't be that large.

 

[bicbasher]

But journey planners add excessive amounts of time for connections. In reality the difference won't be that large.

Of course, I've done the journey from Forest Hill to Canary Wharf in just over 15 minutes if the Jubilee line train is at the platform at Canada Water.

However, the ELL has achieved what is required which is to reduce capacity at London Bridge during the building works and relieved the pressure from Southern during the peaks, although the 6tph which operate during the morning peak are still required. All it takes is for an incident like today where Southern services were reduced and the ELL buckles under the strain, even with the longitude seating.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I was at New Cross Gate earlier, so observed the following.

The footbridge is temporary. At a guess, if Southern like London Overground are not operating between 23rd-28th December, this will be the time to install the permanant footbridge across all platforms.

The gate on platform 5 is wide enough to handle passenger flows, although as the gates open towards the retail park, any Oyster validators would have to either on the platform itself or on the very short pavement next to the fence.

 

[cle]

The funding isn't currently available for the extra 2tph on the ELL. At a recent LOROL passenger board meeting, it was suggested to a member of the local transport committee I'm on that we should campaign for two of the 4tph which go to New Cross to be diverted to Crystal Palace instead.

However I agree that NXG should have 4tph on the island platforms post Thameslink.

That's a shame, is it to do with units or driver costs?

What about the other 2tph which would presumably be spare (given the timetable works on 15 minute cycles) ?

I think that it should take 20+ tph.

 

[bicbasher]

That's a shame, is it to do with units or driver costs?

What about the other 2tph which would presumably be spare (given the timetable works on 15 minute cycles) ?

I think that it should take 20+ tph.

Sadly I don't know as I didn't attend the meeting and only have a brief copy of the minutes, although we have a member who also works for London Travelwatch who thinks the extra 2tph is still possible.

The other 2tph would still go to New Cross which would leave those using the station with a 30 minute service. The NX service is the quietest of the ELL branches.

South of NXG, the timetable allows for another 2tph as far as Crystal Palace bringing it to a maximum of 14tph between NXG and Sydenham. (10tph ELL, 4tph Southern).

 

[cle]

Sadly I don't know as I didn't attend the meeting and only have a brief copy of the minutes, although we have a member who also works for London Travelwatch who thinks the extra 2tph is still possible.

The other 2tph would still go to New Cross which would leave those using the station with a 30 minute service. The NX service is the quietest of the ELL branches.

South of NXG, the timetable allows for another 2tph as far as Crystal Palace bringing it to a maximum of 14tph between NXG and Sydenham. (10tph ELL, 4tph Southern).

Sorry I meant that surely if 2tph can be added to Crystal Palace - the opposite 2tph of the clock can be added also? For example, if added at 10 and 40 past, then 25 and 55 would surely be available no?

Especially as the Southern service follows this too?

Not considering the diverting 2tph from New Cross suggestion, but the original plan.

 

[bicbasher]

Sorry I meant that surely if 2tph can be added to Crystal Palace - the opposite 2tph of the clock can be added also? For example, if added at 10 and 40 past, then 25 and 55 would surely be available no?

Especially as the Southern service follows this too?

Not considering the diverting 2tph from New Cross suggestion, but the original plan.

Considering the Clapham's are squashed between the New Cross and West Croydon services three minutes apart, the only gap I can see is between the West Croydon and Crystal Palace trains, relieving the existing Highbury & Islington service.

So you'd have at NXG Southbound platforms 1-2:

West Croydon x02, x17 x32 x47
Crystal Palace (from Dalston Junction, the extra service) x05, and x35 or x20 and x50
Crystal Palace (from Highbury and Islington) x07, x22 x37 x52
Southern to Victoria or Caterham/West Croydon evening peak (from London Bridge) x13, x28 x43 x58

I'd expect the CP's from H&I to be retimed giving a larger gap between the extra CP's and the Southern services and those extra 2tph to be in front of the Caterham's as there's already 2tph from Southern which call at Crystal Palace.

At least the existing services will gain some extra capacity when the 5 car units start in December 2014.

 

[cle]

Perhaps the whole lot could redone, and be tightened up a bit.

Running times are dismal, not to mention the crawl between Wandsworth Road and Clapham Junction - and the terrible waits between both LO routes at Clapham itself.

If 4tph could be added, would it be best to put all four through NXG, or just the 2 as planned, and then have 6tph to New Cross?

Or 6tph to Clapham Junction, but that would be harder to timetable. More Victoria - Dartford trains would need to use the Atlantic lines I guess, due to the crossing moves around Clapham High St.

Or 2tph to East Croydon, once that is expanded with new platforms? Or 3tph to each Croydon?

 

[Skoodle]

The crawl between Wandsworth Road and Clapham Junction is due to a 20, 25 and then 10mph maximum permitted speed. It's so frustrating.

To offer those extra services LOROL would have to take on extra drivers which they're currently not willing to do.