New Cross Gate & Oyster Railcard adding

[NathanPrior]

Basically went to New Cross Gate (managed by LO) this morning to add my YP Railcard to my Oyster (it keeps being removed every 6 months) as stated on TFL:

To get the discounted Oyster fares below, you need to add your Railcard discount to your Oyster card, 18+ Student Oyster photocard or 16+ Oyster photocard. You can do this at Tube, London Overground and some National Rail ticket offices.

So I ask and the reply I get from the ticket clerk was "I can't do that, I don't have the facilities and you can only do it at a Tube station" so when I pointed out the above text and stated all you needed was the normal Oyster pad and computer which he had he still insisted he couldn't do it.

So thanks to that cock up, today cost me £9 odd when instead it should of been £5.60. Surely I should be able to get some sort of compensation.

 

[yorkie]

Surely I should be able to get some sort of compensation.

Yes. Write to London Overground and if they do not resolve the matter, refer it to Passenger Focus.

 

[maniacmartin]

Can someone with TIS experience comment on this?

New Cross Gate is a former Southern station, and I believe they use SHERE??? and not FasTIS like most London Overground stations. Is it technically possible for them to add railcards to Oyster cards?

 

[MikeWh]

I can confirm that LO stations south of Surrey Quays cannot add railcards. East Croydon should be able to because that has a FasTIS terminal.

 

[bicbasher]

NXG used to have a FasTIS machine during the London Underground era, however LOROL decided for some reason or another to remove it and use the existing Southern SHERE terminals to sell Oyster products, while not offering full Oyster facilities.

 

[maniacmartin]

NathanPrior, perhaps you'd also consider contacting TfL's web team to get them to clarify that not all London Overground stations are able to offer this.

 

[BigVince76]

Buying any kind of ticket at New Cross Gate is always pain, the staff seem quite nice but just don't have a clue what they can and can't sell. You usually have to spoon feed them step by step and they get there in the end.

 

[Muzer]

Buying any kind of ticket at New Cross Gate is always pain, the staff seem quite nice but just don't have a clue what they can and can't sell. You usually have to spoon feed them step by step and they get there in the end.

In general (not at NXG, to which I have never been), this is why, if possible for the services I want (and if one exists of course), I'll head straight for a machine even if there's no queue

Speaking of Oyster cards, though, I must remember to add my new railcard to mine next time I use it (which is so infrequently due to travelcards coming for not much more than rail tickets, it's not been since my railcard expired in December).

I had one particular incident (naming no locations!) where I was buying a few tickets to Shepherd's Bush. One of the tickets didn't start at this station so I went to the ticket office (I don't believe you can buy different-starting-location tickets from SWT machines, can you? For that matter, can you get groupsave ones?)

Now, I knew that there was a return via Clapham (which is what I wanted), or a travelcard which was a few quid more (not enough to make a fuss about though) and not necessary for my journey. The conversation went something along these lines:

Me: Could I have N returns to Shepherd's Bush, please (insert additional conditions about starting station for one of the N here; I can't remember all the details )
Her: OK, would you like them via Waterloo, or via Clapham?
Me: Via Clapham, please.
(Some typing)
Her: Sorry, did you say you wanted them via Waterloo?
Me: No, via Clapham.
(More typing, gives amount, I pay her)
(I take tickets outside, look at tickets)
(Starting Station) to London Zone 1-6
*FACEPALM*

 

[yorkie]

Buying any kind of ticket at New Cross Gate is always pain....

I once asked for an excess at New Cross Gate. I was told the only type of excess that exists is to change a single ticket into a return ticket. I asked him if he had access to The Manual, and he said no. I gave up at that point and went elsewhere.

London Overground only get good satisfaction levels because nearly all their passengers use Oyster PAYG or Travelcards, and don't have frustrating experiences at ticket offices. LO cannot be bothered to provide adequate training to LO staff.

It's a common misconception among LO staff that they are not even part of National Rail, and this is used as an excuse as to why they can't do excesses, can't do reservations, etc etc .... :roll:

There's far too many problems for it to be down to individual members of staff. I blame LO management.

 

[jon0844]

When 95% of users use Oyster even staff who do get training will probably forget in little time.

All the more reason to adopt smartcards everywhere. I'm on a bus right now where people are faffing around to pay with coins, and it's mad that we can't use something like Oyster or just a contactless card.

 

[yorkie]

When 95% of users use Oyster even staff who do get training will probably forget in little time.

Agreed. I have no problem with people forgetting, trying to be helpful, but being slow.

But when they've not been given access to The Manual, and have not even been told about excess fares (other than one type), the staff don't really have much of a chance! I find that an unacceptable failing by the management of the Company.

But LO don't care because people will still rate them as good.

I did participate in a LO survey once however given the nature of the survey they will get good results as the focus is on punctuality, value for money etc. I wanted to get across that value for money was good apart from certain aspects such as Shoreditch being in Zone 1, but there's no mechanism for that, so you either have to give them a bad rating for the current journey (which would be unfair) or let them boast about how such a high proportion of people think the fares are good value (which ignores certain issues such as Shoreditch, and the fares beyond Zone 6, being too high). As I was using Oyster it was also difficult to get across the fact that ticket office training is inadequate.

 

[bicbasher]

From my experience of using Forest Hill pre and post Southern. If you get an ex Southern staff member, they know what to do with more 'complex' NR ticketing issues, if you get a staff member used to working at one of the core LO stations who's more likely to get customers using the ticket office for Oyster transactions, then you get issues.

The other dubious thing is LO are more than happy to use staff from the core stations at their ex Southern stations trained up using SHERE, but they won't train their staff at their South London stations to use and install FasTIS.

As most of their pax appear to use Oyster, the attitude appears to be that anyone who wants a Boundary Zone 6 to Eastbourne can forget it!

 

[maniacmartin]

I have to agree with yorkie about the surveys. I filled in one and it didn't ask the right questions. For a start, you are only allowed to comment on the current journey. There is nothing about staff knowledge or ticketing - it's all geared towards punctuality and train cleanliness.

 

[bicbasher]

I don't know if it's deliberate or not, but there does appear to be the impression to Joe Public that London Overground is simply another TfL service in the same way LU and the DLR are. Visit some stations on the NLL/ELL and the double arrow symbol isn't even on signage, while the core ELL stations don't offer ToD at TVM's.

Where LO stations have other TOC's, the double arrow symbol is there.

 

[NathanPrior]

I finally got it added on at Canada Water, after having an argument with the ticket clerk there who was adamant he couldn't add it to my Oyster as my Oyster didn't have the same number as the railcard did.

He kept telling me "if I add it and the inspectors check your card and the number is the same you'll get a PF, are you willing to take the risk?" so in the end I just said told him to just add it and I'll take the risk, knowing for well there isn't any risk involved.

I think what he was confused about was the number for my discount bus & tram card (on slot 2 on my oyster) being the main one and the railcard going in slot 3. This way I shouldn't have the problem of the railcard being wiped off when I add my new bus discount card on in november.

 

[benk1342]

I don't know if it's deliberate or not, but there does appear to be the impression to Joe Public that London Overground is simply another TfL service in the same way LU and the DLR are.

On the other hand, Joe Public also seems to refer to all National Rail services in London as Overground (simply because it is not Underground)---including some TfL staff that I know!

 

[skizz]

NathanPrior, I had exactly the same problem that you initially reported at Peckham Rye. While it's not branded as an Overground station saying that you can get the railcard added at "any LO station" makes life difficult for everyone. It's not at all clear and I ended up having to wander down into the tube station at King's Cross to get it done.

When my Mrs tried getting hers added on at the new ticket offices at Farringdon (which are LU branded but are actually national rail I believe?) she was told they couldn't do it there either and as the tube entrance was closed for works was charged more for the fare.

 

[bicbasher]

NathanPrior, I had exactly the same problem that you initially reported at Peckham Rye. While it's not branded as an Overground station saying that you can get the railcard added at "any LO station" makes life difficult for everyone. It's not at all clear and I ended up having to wander down into the tube station at King's Cross to get it done.

Peckham Rye is a Southern managed station despite being served by London Overground, so are not obliged to provide any Oyster facilities at that ticket office, although the TVM's do.

 

[skizz]

Peckham Rye is a Southern managed station despite being served by London Overground, so are not obliged to provide any Oyster facilities at that ticket office, although the TVM's do.

I appreciate that, but Joe Public is not going to know what a "London Overground" station is which is the terminology they use. Joe Public will read the information that says you can get this done at "any London Overground station", and say to himself "London Overground trains stop there, so they should be able to do this for me". He won't go into the ins and outs of which TOC manages the station seeing as it is common sense to think that as a train stops there, you should be able to get services related to it at the ticket office.

I am acutely aware that this isn't how it works...

 

[bicbasher]

I appreciate that, but Joe Public is not going to know what a "London Overground" station is which is the terminology they use. Joe Public will read the information that says you can get this done at "any London Overground station", and say to himself "London Overground trains stop there, so they should be able to do this for me". He won't go into the ins and outs of which TOC manages the station seeing as it is common sense to think that as a train stops there, you should be able to get services related to it at the ticket office.

Clearly the publicity regarding adding railcards needs to be changed to say that this can't be done at LO stations south of Surrey Quays including the two Southern stations and one Southeastern station on the SLL.

However, even if Peckham Rye and Queens Road Peckham were transferred to LOROL, I suspect they'd maintain the SHERE terminals as they've done on the Sydenham line and only offer the most basic of Oyster services.

 

[jon0844]

Joe Public often referred to trains within London as overground, or overland (few would say 'National Rail' or even British Rail) so I can see why they will now call all trains Overground (not necessarily adding the London bit).

 

[maniacmartin]

Another phrase I've heard from staff and the public to refer to National Rail is "mainline services". This is sometimes even used to refer to the Overground ELL section.

 

[bicbasher]

I remember being on an ELL service on the 'mainline' section when a passenger on a mobile said "I'm on the tube."

London Overground's hybrid service and branding is confusing.

 

[MikeWh]

I remember being on an ELL service on the 'mainline' section when a passenger on a mobile said "I'm on the tube."

London Overground's hybrid service and branding is confusing.

Well it's obvious when all LO lines appear on "The tube map".