Yes, that's what I think is probably involved in their refurbishment, unfortunately.
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New Cross Country
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Yes, that's what I think is probably involved in their refurbishment, unfortunately.
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"Modification of existing Voyager trains will add 14 seats to each four-car set and 16 seats to each five-car set. Arriva has informed us that they plan to remove the on board shop and one toilet from each set to provide extra seats and luggage space for passengers."
Shame about Virgin losing it, despite problems with Voyager introduction I felt that the TOC was 'getting there'.
8 Car HSTs - An idea that's been needed from the start. Capacity has always been tight on Edinburgh/Newcastle - Derby/New St/South West corridor.
I presume the MML Buffet will be taken out on the 170/1 Turbostars and replace by Seats. Perhaps also an order for more Carriages to strengthen the Turbostar fleet?
Branding. - Ditching the Arriva brand is a good idea and it distances the franchise from poorly run services under the Arriva Umbrella. Liverly looks quite nice too.
Verdict? Times move on, but don't slate Arriva until they start operations. They might get something right for once.
8 Car HSTs - An idea that's been needed from the start. Capacity has always been tight on Edinburgh/Newcastle - Derby/New St/South West corridor.
I presume the MML Buffet will be taken out on the 170/1 Turbostars and replace by Seats. Perhaps also an order for more Carriages to strengthen the Turbostar fleet?
Branding. - Ditching the Arriva brand is a good idea and it distances the franchise from poorly run services under the Arriva Umbrella. Liverly looks quite nice too.
Verdict? Times move on, but don't slate Arriva until they start operations. They might get something right for once.
Remove the onboard shop? Why?
With the amount of people that use the onboard shop on Voyagers, surely it's not a good idea?
I know they'll do a trolley service, but it's not the same as taking your time to choose your own food, or getting a hot burger.
With the amount of people that use the onboard shop on Voyagers, surely it's not a good idea?
I know they'll do a trolley service, but it's not the same as taking your time to choose your own food, or getting a hot burger.
Callufrax
Member
Removing the shop, and definitely a toilet, are going to be quite unpopular - particularly on some of Cross Country's long services!
The shop is to be replaced by a trolley.
When the Voyagers were built, there was a lack of clarity in the Disability Discrimination Act and they were not quite sure of their obligations. As a result, all tiolets [sic] on the Voyagers were 'disabled' ones. We now know that that was excessive. I don't know if this means some toilets will be replaced by 'standard' ones.
When the Voyagers were built, there was a lack of clarity in the Disability Discrimination Act and they were not quite sure of their obligations. As a result, all tiolets [sic] on the Voyagers were 'disabled' ones. We now know that that was excessive. I don't know if this means some toilets will be replaced by 'standard' ones.
Callufrax
Member
A trolley service, catering to a four or five coach train, is simply not going to cut it - maybe on a 3 coach Turbostar.
However, I'd hate to travel on a Voyager, sans shop, from Aberdeen to Penzance.
However, I'd hate to travel on a Voyager, sans shop, from Aberdeen to Penzance.
Lewisham2221
Established Member
Trolley option is certainly a poor idea. Especially when it will only add the benefit of 14 extra seats! Hardly going to totally relieve overcrowding. I dread to think how many times the trolley will be able to pass through the train on any journey, given crowding issues and the fairly frequent stops made on XC routes.
Exactly, when they announce that the shop is open, everyone gets up and goes there. Whereas, with a trolley, everyone is going to have to wait. It's gonna take alot longer. People aren't gonna be able to get hot food (?), certain things might run out by the time the trolley has reached the back coaches.
It's just not a good idea if you ask me.
First ScotRail
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I dont think the AXC staff are going to be too happy moving from a shop to a trolly, heaving it all the way through 5 coaches. I bet there will now be a fight at EDB to get into working on the VWC Brum-Scotland services!
Donny Dave
Established Member
cool HST's through Nuneaton!
No chance. Cambridge and Nottingham will be served by 170s only.
Callufrax
Member
Gizmogle said:
Why they can't just strengthen them by another coach, I've no idea. It'd add another 60 (from memory) seats to each set. Though, the DfT would probably not authorise it. However, Arriva certainly has the cash to buy additional coaches outright - therefore bypassing the DfT for any necessary funding.
Nym
Established Member
Wonder how long they will retain the MML, CT and VT liveries though? Arriva trains northern never even bothered to get rid of northern spirit colours!
Donny Dave
Established Member
Callufrax, they can't simply add another coach to each train, as the production line no longer exists. Also, if the production line was to be re-tooled and reopened, each new carriage would have to be a trailer as the QSK19 engines are no longer in production.
Callufrax
Member
Nym said:
I think they'll re-livery quite quickly this time.
First ScotRail
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I would expect a 220 and 170 to be put into the livery for the launch. Then a contract to be drawn up for the repainting very quickly after that.
Callufrax
Member
Ah, yes, of course. It evolved into the Meridian/Pioneer.
First ScotRail
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I think as with all franchises improvements will come, over time.
Callufrax
Member
I think there will be a great deal of negative public reaction.
Whenever I went railfanning at places like Doncaster, I'd wait for a Voyager, and change at Sheffield, rather than catching a through TP service back to Manchester Piccadilly, partly due to the provision of the on-board shop.
Lewisham2221
Established Member
Can't really say yet, although I'm not building my hopes up for it to be on par or better than VXC.
A couple of thoughts though:
1) Where are these HST sets coming from?
2) Will the refurb include power cars (i.e MTU'ing)?
3a) When do they plan to introduce them?
3b) When do they plan on modifying the Voyagers/Turbostars?
3c) When are they going to repaint the fleet?
Bear in mind that none of the above is likely to happen on any scale at any time soon. For starters there the acquisition and refurb of the HST's could take ages. Also considering that they will still be running the Brighton service for another year - is/will the fleet be big enough to allow any modifications to the existing fleet without impact on service reliability and overcrowding?
Yeah, they're definately promising too much. If they had held back a little, then people would be pleasantly suprised if they had actually managed it all.
Callufrax
Member
Agreed. I do think they're promising too much, too soon. However, that's how franchises are won, these days.
Mintona
Established Member
Innocent until proven guilty. I would like to think they will do a good job.
Removing the shop sounds like a very bad idea to me. Trolleys are just not suitable for long distance intercity journeys, they don't provide the level of catering that is demanded in my opinion. Long distance passengers like to be able to have some hot food, or nicely chilled drinks, or decent coffees (rather than rubbish instant ones!), and a trolley isn't going to provide this. The food offering on the York-Edinburgh route on the new east coast franchise is clearly going to be vastly superior to that of cross country trains.
devon_metro
Established Member
I'd rather sit down than eat something!
But the 16 additional seats really aren't going to make all that much difference!
The Snap
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Interesting. Pardon my ignorance, but is this now a definite move?
What will happen to all Virgin's Voyagers, are CrossCountry going to take all of them?
Also, will HSTs be running from Manchester Piccadilly once again?! :-P
What will happen to all Virgin's Voyagers, are CrossCountry going to take all of them?
Also, will HSTs be running from Manchester Piccadilly once again?! :-P
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