New Cities

[TheEdge]

Hopefully Stanley down in the Falklands, mainly because it'll just annoy the Argentinians

 

[cactustwirly]

Yeah, it's a bit unfair. I think there's a fairly strong case for Doncaster.

Why I don't see why it is a strong case.
It's just a Northern town with a big railway station

 

[backontrack]

Why I don't see why it is a strong case.
It's just a Northern town with a big railway station

Major regional hub, population over 110,000 rising to 160,000 in the urban area, it has a Minster, historic listed buildings like the Mansion House, market charter status from medieval times, regeneration in recent years particularly around Sir Nigel Gresley Square, an art gallery and museums and theatres, and - of course - solid transport links. Also it was once home to a 43 year-old goldfish! You're being very dismissive.

(Though I understand why you, of all, would support Reading's case over it... )

 

[D6130]

Why I don't see why it is a strong case.
It's just a Northern town with a big railway station

It's a large Northern town with a significant population, not only in the town itself, but also in its extensive suburbs and satellite towns and villages....plus, it has a magnificent gothic Minster. I would say that it would be a worthy contender for city status.

 

[hexagon789]

In Scotland, St Andrews feels the most like a 'traditional' city so I reckon it's fairly possible. Dunfermline could also be in with a shout; I've mentioned it before as being perhaps the most natural candidate for Scotland's eighth city; large population and size (top 10 in Scotland and growing too), decent regional importance, and quite a bit of history behind it what with the abbey and palace. Either way, I feel like Fife may well gain a city.

Elgin is another one that was once claimed to be a city, although long ago.

Elgin was a city; Elgin and Perth both had city status removed in the 1970s as part of the reforms of Scottish local government.

Perth of course had its status restored in 2012, meanwhile road signs in the city continued to refer to the 'City Centre', ie the fair people of the Fair City basically said - 'we are still a "city" even if the government says we aren't'!

 

[NorthOxonian]

Perth of course had its status restored in 2012, meanwhile road signs in the city continued to refer to the 'City Centre', ie the fair people of the Fair City basically said - 'we are still a "city" even if the government says we aren't'!

This also happens in Dunfermline - at least one road sign there says "city centre" (on the roundabout just east of the town centre).

 

[SargeNpton]

This also happens in Dunfermline - at least one road sign there says "city centre" (on the roundabout just east of the town centre).

On the other hand, there are plenty of signs in Milton Keynes that refer to it as a city - even though it has never been.

 

[hexagon789]

This also happens in Dunfermline - at least one road sign there says "city centre" (on the roundabout just east of the town centre).

Dunfermline was certainly, as with Brechin, a Royal Burgh but I don't believe ever accorded City Status. The rights and privileges of Royal Burghs in Scotland was abolished in 1975.

The Act of Union in 1707 expressly guaranteed the preservation of Royal Burghs alomg with their rights and privileges - at that point there were 70(!) such Royal Burghs.

 

[backontrack]

This also happens in Dunfermline - at least one road sign there says "city centre" (on the roundabout just east of the town centre).

If Dunfermline wins, would its westernmost rail station become Dunfermline City?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Dec 2021 ==

Elgin was a city; Elgin and Perth both had city status removed in the 1970s as part of the reforms of Scottish local government.

Perth of course had its status restored in 2012, meanwhile road signs in the city continued to refer to the 'City Centre', ie the fair people of the Fair City basically said - 'we are still a "city" even if the government says we aren't'!

It's quite odd to think of Elgin being a city but Inverness not being one!

 

[hexagon789]

If Dunfermline wins, would its westernmost rail station become Dunfermline City?

Why not Dunfermline Citadel? Sounds much more impressive

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Dec 2021 ==

It's quite odd to think of Elgin being a city but Inverness not being one!

Indeed, especially given that Inverness has a cathedral just as Elgin does.

And Inverness was a Royal Burgh.

 

[backontrack]

Why not Dunfermline Citadel? Sounds much more impressive

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Dec 2021 ==


Indeed, especially given that Inverness has a cathedral just as Elgin does.

And Inverness was a Royal Burgh.

Dunfermline Paragon? Dunfermline Temple Meads?

I do like Citadel though. And yes, Inverness not being a city for much of history is slightly surprising to me, to be honest. I mean, Brechin was one!

 

[hexagon789]

I mean, Brechin was one!

Not a city, only a Royal Burgh.

Pre-1975 the six cities were:

Glasgow
Edinburgh
Dundee
Aberdeen
Perth
Elgin

 

[D6130]

On the other hand, there are plenty of signs in Milton Keynes that refer to it as a city - even though it has never been.

Although there was an AC electric loco named "City of Milton Keynes"....86 211, destroyed in the Colwich collision in 1986.

 

[backontrack]

Not a city, only a Royal Burgh.

Pre-1975 the six cities were:

Glasgow
Edinburgh
Dundee
Aberdeen
Perth
Elgin

Ah, silly me. Cheers I guess it just calls itself a city.

 

[cactustwirly]

Major regional hub, population over 110,000 rising to 160,000 in the urban area, it has a Minster, historic listed buildings like the Mansion House, market charter status from medieval times, regeneration in recent years particularly around Sir Nigel Gresley Square, an art gallery and museums and theatres, and - of course - solid transport links. Also it was once home to a 43 year-old goldfish! You're being very dismissive.

(Though I understand why you, of all, would support Reading's case over it... )

Reading is double the size. The official figure is 160,000 for Reading Borough Council. But some of Reading is covered by Wokingham Borough Council (like Earley which is arguably Reading)

It is also a large employment centre, with many large companies such as 3, Microsoft and Pepsi having their European offices in Reading.

So it has a much stronger case than Doncaster

 

[Ediswan]

By the definition in use here, Greater London is not a city.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Indeed, especially given that Inverness has a cathedral just as Elgin does.

Until the 1980s if people in Inverness and hinterland wanted Marks and Spencers the nearest one was in Elgin!

 

[AM9]

By the definition in use here, Greater London is not a city.

Applying the population criterion that some propose here would mean that every one of the 33 boroughs would easily be a city, with the sole exception of one, - the City of London which is already a city but only had a population of 10,938 in 2020. 23 of the 33 have populations of over 1/4 million. That is greater than Wolverhampton, Derby, Swansea, Aberdeen, Southampton and Gateshead.

 

[scotrail158713]

Have we not mentioned South Ayrshire as an area applying to become a city? That seems a bizarre one to me.

 

[Ediswan]

Applying the population criterion that some propose here would mean that every one of the 33 boroughs would easily be a city, with the sole exception of one, - the City of London which is already a city but only had a population of 10,938 in 2020. 23 of the 33 have populations of over 1/4 million. That is greater than Wolverhampton, Derby, Swansea, Aberdeen, Southampton and Gateshead.

No need for the exception, the City of London is not a borough.

 

[DarloRich]

Milton Keynes followed by Middlesbrough.

No other discussion required.

 

[hexagon789]

Ah, silly me. Cheers I guess it just calls itself a city.

Plenty of places do - I think for the 'prestige' factor. Not saying they are wrong to do so; I mean if Brechin applied for City Status I think it would be quite reasonable for it to do if it so wished.

Until the 1980s if people in Inverness and hinterland wanted Marks and Spencers the nearest one was in Elgin!

Seems preposterous now, but I guess the business economics determined that Elgin was more worthy of a branch? Or was that Marks just being snobbish and only having a store in a city (presuming the Elgin branch opened when Elgin was still a city).

 

[AlterEgo]

Milton Keynes followed by Middlesbrough.

No other discussion required.

Yes, plus there are likely to be three other candidates from the other nations. St Andrew's, perhaps, Wrexham is a shoe-in, and I fancy Coleraine as an outsider in NI.

 

[philosopher]

Milton Keynes followed by Middlesbrough.

No other discussion required.

Of those on the list I have visited, Reading and Milton Keynes feel most like cities. However due to the Government’s levelling agenda, my guess would be either Middlesborough or Doncaster.

 

[AM9]

Of those on the list I have visited, Reading and Milton Keynes feel most like cities. However due to the Government’s levelling agenda, my guess would be either Middlesborough or Doncaster.

Whichever is the ex red wall constituency that they want to bribe to vote their way next time.

 

[317 forever]

Bournemouth is interesting because of how it is part of one big area with only way to tell you have entered a different town by the road signs, a bit like the greater London area.

Bournemouth & Poole could become 1 city, a bit like Brighton & Hove is treated like one.

Mind you, it would lead to Poole gaining the word Actually to supplement it.

 

[Gloster]

Bournemouth & Poole could become 1 city, a bit like Brighton & Hove is treated like one.

Mind you, it would lead to Poole gaining the word Actually to supplement it.

Well, one of the main ‘big city’ pointers is a proper orchestra and the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra definitely comes into this category. However, it is based in Poole nowadays.

 

[backontrack]

Reading is double the size. The official figure is 160,000 for Reading Borough Council. But some of Reading is covered by Wokingham Borough Council (like Earley which is arguably Reading)

It is also a large employment centre, with many large companies such as 3, Microsoft and Pepsi having their European offices in Reading.

So it has a much stronger case than Doncaster

Still doesn't pass the smell test to call Doncaster 'just a Northern provincial town'! It's derisory.

I suppose Canterbury shouldn't be a city when nearby Ashford is bigger and also an employment centre?

 

[PTR 444]

Well, one of the main ‘big city’ pointers is a proper orchestra and the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra definitely comes into this category. However, it is based in Poole nowadays.

Also worth mentioning that Bournemouth’s one and only university is actually located in Poole.

I think there was a proposal about a decade ago to name the BCP conurbation as “City of Poole Bay”

 

[Busaholic]

Marazion would be an interesting choice. Its station closed in 1964, although the main Great Western line still passes through. Its one chip shop closes in autumn and winter. Two double decker buses passing can lead to a stand-off. The only people to benefit would be the National Trust and the St Aubyn family of St Michael's Mount fame.