New Brighton's 'Invalid' Toilets - Acceptable language?

[Gathursty]

If you have the time at New Brighton station, walk through the building to the platforms and turn left. There is an information board (NOT Merseyrail branded) with a map of local amenities. Look at the legend and you will see that instead of Disabled or Accessible toilets, the word 'Invalid' is used.

I was thinking on my journey home about whether the word 'Invalid' is appropriate as I've never heard of disabled people be described in this way ever. I was a bit shocked tbh.

Have you ever seen this word crop up on the rail network elsewhere?
How long has it been since disabled/accessible toilets were referred to as such?
When did the word 'Invalid' fall out of fashion?

Pic is here.

 

[Bungle965]

While not to do with this thread I was heading home on a coach from Birmingham one evening and a woman asked if she could sit next to me as the coach was beginning to become busy. However she saw the disabled sign on the wall next to me and instead said. `Nevermind that is where the invalid sit`. I should point out that the sticker was there because it was the seat of seats that could be dropped if a wheelchair passenger wanted to board the coach. I was quite shocked as I had never heard that term used before for a disabled person.
Sam

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is an old term, seen as acceptable in the 1980s. Probably just an old sign that wasn't replaced.


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[DaleCooper]

What surprises me is that neither of you had heard "invalid" used in this way, it was once very common (in fact the norm) as I'm sure older members will agree

Try googling "invalid carriage"

 

[tony_mac]

The term 'invalid carriage' has been used in legislation (which is still in force) at least from 1970 onwards (Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act)

In 2002, it was already suggested it was an outdated term
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/2002/dec/02/motorised-wheelchairs

By 2010 it was 'widely considered outdated and offensive'
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/2392/consultation-document.pdf

and the consultation resulted in an intention to replace the term.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/2390/decision.pdf

 

[Bletchleyite]

Note that it's pronounced "inn-vallid" with the emphasis on "inn" and "lid" and as such does not suggest a lack of validity (e.g. in terms of a ticket), which would be pronounced "inn-va-lid" with emphasis on all three syllables.

It appears to have Latin etymology.

 

[edwin_m]

Presumably if you're an "invalid" you're allowed to travel on an "invalid" ticket.

 

[Gathursty]

I'll also add that I am 26 years old so my vocab regarding the disabled is roughly that used in the late 90s to the present day.

 

[talltim]

I always understood it to have a slightly different meaning to disabled, you were an invalid while recuperating from an illness or injury. For example, if you lost a leg in an accident you would be an invalid while the wound healed and disabled from when you lost it.

 

[DarloRich]

it looks like a very old info board using old terminology

 

[Gutfright]

it looks like a very old info board using old terminology

Apart from the word "invalid" the bit that said "public cardphone" really dates it.

 

[Busaholic]

Invalid Care Allowance was replaced by Home Carer's Allowance on 1/1/13.

 

[theblackwatch]

Words come and go, I'm sure in XX years time, someone will decide the word 'disabled' is offensive and others will follow suit. Look at how many other words have become unacceptable or are now considered to be a form of abuse - 'spastic' for example was considered to be perfectly ok to use (there was even a charity, The Spastics Society, which became Scope in the 1990s). You don't hear the word 'handicapped' used much nowadays either.

 

[yorkie]

Words come and go, I'm sure in XX years time, someone will decide the word 'disabled' is offensive and others will follow suit.....

I was just thinking the same thing!

I predict this will happen one day, but predicting what will replace it is tricky.

 

[Gutfright]

I was just thinking the same thing!

I predict this will happen one day, but predicting what will replace it is tricky.

Differently abled and handicapable have already been tried, but neither really caught on.

 

[J-2739]

'spastic' for example was considered to be perfectly ok to use (there was even a charity, The Spastics Society, which became Scope in the 1990s).

Even the word 'spastic' is still acceptable in some Western countries: The USA springs to mind.
I think 'crippled' is still used commonly, despite it being offensive.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Words come and go, I'm sure in XX years time, someone will decide the word 'disabled' is offensive and others will follow suit. Look at how many other words have become unacceptable or are now considered to be a form of abuse - 'spastic' for example was considered to be perfectly ok to use (there was even a charity, The Spastics Society, which became Scope in the 1990s). You don't hear the word 'handicapped' used much nowadays either.

I am sure that the Handicapped Childrens Fellowship is still in existence today.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Note that it's pronounced "inn-vallid" with the emphasis on "inn" and "lid" and as such does not suggest a lack of validity (e.g. in terms of a ticket), which would be pronounced "inn-va-lid" with emphasis on all three syllables.

It appears to have Latin etymology.

There was a term of "invalided out of the army" but I am unsure if it is still used these days.

 

[AlterEgo]

Words come and go, I'm sure in XX years time, someone will decide the word 'disabled' is offensive and others will follow suit. Look at how many other words have become unacceptable or are now considered to be a form of abuse - 'spastic' for example was considered to be perfectly ok to use (there was even a charity, The Spastics Society, which became Scope in the 1990s). You don't hear the word 'handicapped' used much nowadays either.

It was until quite recently that a lot of Scope literature/advertising still had the byline "formerly the Spastics' Society" on it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There was a term of "invalided out of the army" but I am unsure if it is still used these days.

I think they call it "medically discharged" now, certainly I've not heard it in a while.

 

[Groningen]

In China it is called: Deformed Man Toilet.

 

[kevinwaltets]

All of these terms were never designed to cause offence or disrespect. Unfortunately today, as we are so controlled and live in a world where the politically correct word mongers get on their high horse about so much of society, innocent words that we have used for generations suddenly become offensive.

Surely disabled is just as offensive as invalid (it doesn't mean the person is not valid, it means they are disabled).


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[Bletchleyite]

I have heard of people using "dysabled" and "differently abled" but that seems a little over the top to me.

In the end a word is only offensive if people use it as an insult or select it in that manner (e.g. the worst of all, the N word, which is so bad because of its context). Otherwise, it's just a descriptive word.

The problem with "invalid" is its second context.

 

[edwin_m]

I have heard of people using "dysabled" and "differently abled" but that seems a little over the top to me.

In the end a word is only offensive if people use it as an insult or select it in that manner (e.g. the worst of all, the N word, which is so bad because of its context). Otherwise, it's just a descriptive word.

The problem with "invalid" is its second context.

Indeed. The reason "Spastic" is no longer used is probably because it became a playground insult, and the "Dog in the Night-Time" book (I realise this is not an authoritative source!) had "Special Needs" being used in the same way.

"Invalid" literally means "not valid" and I think it is understandable if people are upset by the use of a term that suggests they are not "valid" as human beings.

 

[AlterEgo]

Indeed. The reason "Spastic" is no longer used is probably because it became a playground insult, and the "Dog in the Night-Time" book (I realise this is not an authoritative source!) had "Special Needs" being used in the same way.

"Invalid" literally means "not valid" and I think it is understandable if people are upset by the use of a term that suggests they are not "valid" as human beings.

Invalid comes from the Latin "validus" meaning strong, so its direct and principal meaning is simply "not strong", rather than anything else.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I have heard of people using "dysabled" and "differently abled" but that seems a little over the top to me.

You don't really hear either of those outside a Students' Union council meeting, tbf. People I know in wheelchairs don't like "differently abled"- they're just as able as everyone else, it's just they need a wheelchair to get around.

Some people will take offence at everything. But if most people are taking offence at a word- especially people who are experiencing it- then that word is probably offensive.

And invalid has been offensive for quite a long time. Invalidity Benefit was renamed Incapacity Benefit (which is now Employment Support Allowance- don't forget we're all workers or shirkers) as long ago as 1995.

 

[AlterEgo]

I have heard of people using "dysabled" and "differently abled" but that seems a little over the top to me.

In the end a word is only offensive if people use it as an insult or select it in that manner (e.g. the worst of all, the N word, which is so bad because of its context). Otherwise, it's just a descriptive word.

The problem with "invalid" is its second context.

On that note, when I fly and go by train, I often hear assistance staff say "we've got three wheelchairs to get off", or something similar.

What they mean is people in wheelchairs - classic problem of seeing the problem not the person. I think if I were in a wheelchair I'd be a bit miffed if I heard that.

Just musing.

 

[Tetchytyke]

On that note, when I fly and go by train, I often hear assistance staff say "we've got three wheelchairs to get off", or something similar.

At least they remember, which is more than can be said for the assistance staff at York...

 

[Bletchleyite]

What they mean is people in wheelchairs - classic problem of seeing the problem not the person. I think if I were in a wheelchair I'd be a bit miffed if I heard that.

I'm not sure I would. They are mostly in the business of handling freight, it's to be expected. (They do after all refer to the more mobile passengers as SLF - self-loading freight)

It isn't language that bothers me, it's actual, practical discrimination.

 

[Starmill]

I was just thinking the same thing!

I predict this will happen one day, but predicting what will replace it is tricky.

A good solution is to describe objects rather than people.

For example in this case you could call it a universal or accessible toilet, rather than a toilet for x people.

Then it's very difficult for someone to accuse you of making a poor, outdated or offensive choice of words.

 

[ExRes]

Indeed. The reason "Spastic" is no longer used is probably because it became a playground insult, and the "Dog in the Night-Time" book (I realise this is not an authoritative source!) had "Special Needs" being used in the same way.

My daughter fosters two sisters who have 'learning difficulties' and are classified, including by the Council, as 'Special Needs'. When you have two girls with the physicality of 20 and 15 year olds and the mental abilities of 8 year olds, the desciption 'Special Needs' is absolutely correct and the best way possible of describing their lives

'Differently abled', I've never heard such pointless rubbish and, as starmill says, what more do you need than 'accessible' to describe toilets?

 

[PermitToTravel]

A good solution is to describe objects rather than people.

For example in this case you could call it a universal or accessible toilet, rather than a toilet for x people.

Then it's very difficult for someone to accuse you of making a poor, outdated or offensive choice of words.

Though I'd advise shying away from "DDA toilet". Whenever TMs announce that phrase it gives off the impression they mean "the toilet the DDA forces us to provide"