(new blog) The Bow Group on rlys & Hs2

[Snapper]

"The Conservative Bow group are currently touting a ‘new’ report which claims we shouldn’t be building Hs2 but reopening old lines instead. The problem is, this report is neither new (it came out in August) or the ‘fresh thinking’ the group use as their slogan."

More here...

https://paulbigland.wordpress.com/2015/10/12/the-bow-groups-fresh-thinking-is-anything-but/

 

[fv43576]

I am not fan of build HS2, but reopen old line is good idea

 

[Geezertronic]

You don't have to be a fan or a critic of HS2 to realise that HS2 and the re-opening of lines is completely unrelated. Whilst the re-opening of lines is great as the Borders line has been a great success for example, re-opening lines like this won't have the effect that HS2 would have on the WCML, ECML and MML

 

[yorksrob]

I know the OP is mainly focused on HS2, but is it really correct to decry a call for large scale rail reopenings as "far from fresh thinking" ?

We've had decades of London based Governments dragging their heels on this issue and now that they've been shown up by the inspiring example set by the devolved Government in Scotland in particular, I welcome all political think tanks that take a fresh look at reversing some of the mistakes of the past fifty years.

A concerted, Government backed campaign to reopen strategic links lost from the network would be a very welcome development and represent a sea change of fresh thinking, in spite of what the OP says.

 

[Snapper]

I know the OP is mainly focused on HS2, but is it really correct to decry a call for large scale rail reopenings as "far from fresh thinking" ?

The point is that the Bow groups 'cry' is really a diversion. It's a classic 'look over there' argument to try & draw attention away from the need for Hs2

 

[yorksrob]

The point is that the Bow groups 'cry' is really a diversion. It's a classic 'look over there' argument to try & draw attention away from the need for Hs2

Well, we hear the call for a programme of reopenings surface from time to time, usually around manifesto time. I'd quite like the public to build up a head of steam behind the issue. If the Bow Group genuinely support a campaign of reopenings and are prepared to stand behind the issue on a long term basis, then it would be very new and welcome departure.

If, on the other hand they peter out on the issue as soon as HS2 is resolved, then by all means, decry as the same old.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

I'm certain that reopening old lines will be cheaper and have more benefits then a new express line. The HS2 reports are all based on information that was disproved. HS2 will actually leave some places, like Leicester, worse off economically. I doubt reopening local lines around the country would cause such problems. And the speed benefits are based on old data where the MML is concerned. It also won't reduce CO2 emissions but stay neutral. The jobs created are very costly per job and likely include relocations. The cost of using HS2 will be higher than current services which will be reduced in some way on ECML, WCML & MML as another thread discussed. The stations are not well placed on the east section. It misses the benefit of allowing overnight freight. It's likely just to extend London commuter belt to the detriment of the rest of the UK.

More places should get new lines, rather than already connected places, where there's still options for other improvements on existing lines. We don't need trains to go faster as the distances are small in the UK unlike France.

 

[MarkRedon]

...
More places should get new lines, rather than already connected places, where there's still options for other improvements on existing lines. We don't need trains to go faster as the distances are small in the UK unlike France.

Some of the new TGV lines in France, where I live, are arguably a step too far. The reason I say this is that high-speed rail is competitive against air where journey times are less than about three hours. There are many distances in the United Kingdom where current rail journey times are greatly in excess of three hours and where rail is therefore uncompetitive – but where with appropriate investment journey times could be less than three hours. This is important because rail is a great deal more energy efficient than either road or air.

We need all of:

1. new railways to places that are not currently served by rail (Ripon, St Andrews, North Devon and North Cornwall);
2. city-pairs which are not well connected by rail (Oxford – Milton Keynes – Cambridge; Derby – Manchester; Edinburgh – Perth);
3. but above all other priorities we need new capacity so that the system as a whole can continue to grow.

In the latter category I include as essential additional capacity between London and the North – the current proposal for which is HS2; between London and the south coast – which is why I strongly support BML2; and between the great cities of the North of England. You cannot improve the performance of a network system as a whole unless you improve the connections between hubs, improve the connections between hubs and spokes, and add new spokes.