New Belmond train in England & Wales

[fgwrich]

Or if you fancy a 6 day tour around the Lake District and Wales, a cabin starts at £17000.
Screen shot of price attached below.

The cabins are stunning and the decor is impressive though. Bellmond has its market and as long as the rebuild has been completed to top standard then it will probably sell well to those with the bank balances to match. The bathrooms are a work of art!

 

[800001]

The cabins are stunning and the decor is impressive though. Bellmond has its market and as long as the rebuild has been completed to top standard then it will probably sell well to those with the bank balances to match. The bathrooms are a work of art!

Oh I totally get that .
I seem to recall one week on the Royal Scotsman used to cost £15k, so most certainly a market.

 

[Steddenm]

Seems like the first trip was cancelled according to the Daily Fail:

Rail fans who paid £55,000 for trip to Cornwall have journey canned

To the dismay of the refurbished Britannic Explorer's passengers, its maiden voyage has hit the buffers. Some passengers paid upwards of £50,000 for a three-night stay in its 'grand suites'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

With a three-day rail trip to Cornwall costing more than a holiday to Venice on the Orient Express, you might expect Britain's newest luxury sleeper train to run on time.

But to the dismay of its well-heeled passengers – who had forked out a minimum of £22,400 for a 'curated' luxury weekend tour of the West Country – the maiden voyage of the refurbished Britannic Explorer has hit the buffers. Guests had celebrated the launch of the rebranded 1970s train with a glitzy three-hour champagne-fuelled launch party headed by actress Keira Knightley at London Euston station last Thursday, with the inaugural trip originally scheduled for departure the following day.

Instead, the ten-coach train, rebranded with bespoke fitted carpets, plush furnishings and commissioned artworks, was returned to a depot near Southampton for 'final refinements'.

Some passengers are understood to have paid upwards of £50,000 for a three-night stay in one of the train's three 'grand suites'.

Train operator Belmond, which also runs the Orient Express, says it offered passengers a full refund 'including associated travel costs', but refused to say why the Britannic Explorer's maiden journey from London's Victoria station to Penzance had been derailed.

 

[Envoy]

This is great for bringing money into the country and of course, providing income for our rail system. The train interior looks wonderful.

However, I really do wonder if they are making the most the areas visited? What is the point of going all the way to Haverfordwest unless you have excursion buses to say St. David’s? Preferably, Tenby should have been the chosen place of a stopover in Pembrokeshire but perhaps they had nowhere to park the train? Is there a siding at Whitland?

Could they have parked at the passing place at Llandeilo and bussed people up to Carreg Cennen Castle?

As someone said earlier, if parking at Porthmadog, a trip on the Welsh Highland Railway or Portmeirion should have been thrown in.

Perhaps they could have stopped at Cardiff - parked the train in Canton whilst the passengers walked up to Cardiff Castle and had a little wander around?

Shrewsbury could also have been a place where they could stretch their legs and see this historic town.

It just goes to show that perhaps redundant sidings are ripped up too quickly and should be retained for possible future use.

 

[Llanigraham]

This is great for bringing money into the country and of course, providing income for our rail system. The train interior looks wonderful.

Agreed!

However, I really do wonder if they are making the most the areas visited? What is the point of going all the way to Haverfordwest unless you have excursion buses to say St. David’s? Preferably, Tenby should have been the chosen place of a stopover in Pembrokeshire but perhaps they had nowhere to park the train? Is there a siding at Whitland?

Do we know that they aren't going to be bused somewhere from Haverfordwest? It isn't that far from both St David's or Tenby.
I suspect there isn't anywhere else suitable to "park" the train.

Could they have parked at the passing place at Llandeilo and bussed people up to Carreg Cennen Castle?

Would they have enjoyed the climb up to the Castle? It is a fair jaunt!
And I doubt the loop is big enough.

As someone said earlier, if parking at Porthmadog, a trip on the Welsh Highland Railway or Portmeirion should have been thrown in.

I understood they are going to Portmeirion and/or Harlech Castle.

Perhaps they could have stopped at Cardiff - parked the train in Canton whilst the passengers walked up to Cardiff Castle and had a little wander around?

Not enough room for them at Canton and there is much more to do than a quick tour of Castell Caerdydd

Shrewsbury could also have been a place where they could stretch their legs and see this historic town.

Agreed.
How about a tour of the wonderful signal box?

It just goes to show that perhaps redundant sidings are ripped up too quickly and should be retained for possible future use.

Would they have been in the right places though?

 

[Gloster]

Half the people who take this are only doing it so that they can say they saw England (‘Wales, what’s that?’) and it cost $00000. That they did it in a luxury train trumps their dinner companions. There will not be many ‘Rail fans’ as in the item in #213. (At least they didn’t say ‘Train buffs’.)

Personally, I don’t think it will last many years. Even with clever marketing the novelty will wear off and the cost of running and overheads will be so large, despite the considerable income per outing, that it will never manage to pay back the investment. The result will be that they will cut their losses and shut it down...and all this even without the appearance of Son of Covid.

 

[zwk500]

Personally, I don’t think it will last many years. Even with clever marketing the novelty will wear off and the cost of running and overheads will be so large, despite the considerable income per outing, that it will never manage to pay back the investment. The result will be that they will cut their losses and shut it down...and all this even without the appearance of Son of Covid.

GBRf already run Belmond's Royal Scotsman services, and Belmond also run the VSOE/British Pullman services, so you'd imagine neither would have committed to the expense of setting it all up if they didn't have a fairly good idea there'd be a return in it. Both companies will have a very good idea of the financials for this sort of endeavour in the current climate.

 

[800001]

Half the people who take this are only doing it so that they can say they saw England (‘Wales, what’s that?’) and it cost $00000. That they did it in a luxury train trumps their dinner companions. There will not be many ‘Rail fans’ as in the item in #213. (At least they didn’t say ‘Train buffs’.)

Personally, I don’t think it will last many years. Even with clever marketing the novelty will wear off and the cost of running and overheads will be so large, despite the considerable income per outing, that it will never manage to pay back the investment. The result will be that they will cut their losses and shut it down...and all this even without the appearance of Son of Covid.

Some of the Royal Scotsman trips cost in excess of £15000 and that is still going strong after how many years?

 

[37069]

Some of the Royal Scotsman trips cost in excess of £15000 and that is still going strong after how many years?

40 this year.

 

[800001]

40 this year.

So the company behind that and this new Britannic Explorer obviously know what they are doing.

 

[chrisjo]

Some of the Royal Scotsman trips cost in excess of £15000 and that is still going strong after how many years?

Last time I saw the Royal Scotsman (Waverley, 26-Oct-24) it appeared to have been privately chartered for a wedding. Love to know how much that cost.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The business risk here is that this is being marketed on the basis that Wales and Cornwall are as attractive as Scotland for generating a sustainable product. I remain to be convinced, Scotland is arguable some of the world’s most unique and beautiful scenery whereas Wales/Cornwall are not.

 

[chrisjo]

Wales/Cornwall are not

Leaving aside this inflammatory assertion, it's my experience whenever I see one of these trains passing even in the most scenic locations that very few of the patrons will be looking out of the windows at all.

 

[JKF]

There was a light engine move associated with this train yesterday, 66748 running light from Eastleigh to London Victoria, then London Victoria to Llandeilo Jn., which went off route via Bath and Filton as the line through. Chipping Sodbury was closed (0Z90 1238 London Victoria to Llandeilo Jn.) This was presumably some sort of route learner. Today it should be running a couple of round trips between Llandrindod to Llandeilo Jn (as 0Z91-0Z94)

There was also another coach moving down to Eastleigh overnight/early this morning, 66762 hauling Britannic Mk3 99105 as the 5Z43 17:24 Hamilton to Eastleigh Arlington.

 

[Envoy]

The business risk here is that this is being marketed on the basis that Wales and Cornwall are as attractive as Scotland for generating a sustainable product. I remain to be convinced, Scotland is arguable some of the world’s most unique and beautiful scenery whereas Wales/Cornwall are not.

True, Scotland does wonderful scenery but so does Wales - both inland and coastal. Cornwall also has wonderful scenery but this tends to be more coastal as it lacks the mountains found in Wales & Scotland. Having said that, the very attractive coastal villages / small towns such as Fowey, St.Ives, Looe and Polperro as well ask some wonderful gardens are also draw visitors to Cornwall.

I once saw a CH4 programme where The Royal Scotsman stopped at Arisaig near Mallaig and the travellers were taken to the wonderful *white beaches nearby. I remember standing on one these beaches looking out to Rhum & Eigg on a hot sunny day and it could have been the Caribbean. Unfortunately, Scottish weather is not on average as good as that further south in Wales and Cornwall. In summer, if it is not raining, the midges will get you in highland Scotland.

* You can see this episode here (programme 1 of 4):> https://www.channel4.com/programmes/all-aboard-scotlands-poshest-train/on-demand/74743-001

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Maybe my wording could have been better. I was trying to convey that there isn’t the perception (particularly across the pond) of Cornwall and Wales being in the same league as Scotland scenically? As it is the perception and status that will probably drive the demand etc.

 

[nwales58]

Paths for the first Wales trip around 21-23/07now showing in RTT.

Confirms the late night to Pwllheli and back for 6 hours parked in Barmouth then early morning shuttle to Tywyn and back.

Let’s hope that doesn’t blow up the scheduled service in the morning as the trial did.

 

[The Bear]

[Deleted]

 

[jimm]

Paths for the first Wales trip around 21-23/07now showing in RTT.

Confirms the late night to Pwllheli and back for 6 hours parked in Barmouth then early morning shuttle to Tywyn and back.

Let’s hope that doesn’t blow up the scheduled service in the morning as the trial did.

Although nothing has been changed on the Belmond website pages, the arrangements for the late evening visits to a Cotswolds pub on the way back to London from Wales seem to have changed. Passenger drop-off and pick-up point will now be Kingham, not Moreton-in-Marsh, with the train running empty to Oxford for stabling, then back to Kingham to pick up around 23.15, before heading to Honeybourne to stable for the night.

Perhaps they hoped to stable in the refuge siding at Moreton-in-Marsh during the pub visit, but twigged that with houses just over the boundary fence, having a generator car running and starting up Class 66s gone 11pm might not be a good idea.

The next day's arrangements for departing from Honeybourne may also pose a risk to the the early morning Cotswold Line service, with a shunt out on to the main line, before leaving at 06.05 for London via Oxford, running in between two IETs to Paddington.

 

[JKF]

This service is probably going to do some rare track with these overnight stops in various sidings. Think you’d have to be a very dedicated track basher to pay the price for it though.

 

[MadCommuter]

I think another trip to the Lakes was cancelled recently too?

 

[The Bear]

I think another trip to the Lakes was cancelled recently too?

Yes it's Lakeland trip 11th-13th July was indeed cancelled.
Fingers crossed for 1st-3rd August........

 

[XCTurbostar]

Looks like a path for the Britannic Explorer to Stewarts Lane via VIC?

Realtime Trains | 1A66 0550 Honeybourne Staff Hut to London Victoria | 24/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 1A66 0550 departure from Honeybourne Staff Hut to London Victoria on 24/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[chrisjo]

Will they / won't they?

Today, 1B90 1548 London Victoria to Haverfordwest, not yet activated, although all the rest of the paths for the four days have been (except for the initial Stewarts Lane-Victoria movements starting at 15:00).

 

[Western 52]

Belmond website has today crossed through in the calendar, so probably not running unless that just means it's full. 4th August is next one shown for the Welsh trip.

 

[chrisjo]

Belmond website has today crossed through in the calendar, so probably not running unless that just means it's full.

 

[Maurice Turner]

View attachment 184521

The date crossed out has now gone and nothing has moved from Eastleigh.

 

[The Bear]

The date crossed out has now gone and nothing has moved from Eastleigh.

View attachment 184521

Very misleading but it looks like Belmond are in a way following the usual practice of most charter promoters/operators total avoidance of displaying 'cancelled' on anything to try & avoid any bad publicity.
At least Belmond are still displaying the dates unlike most of the mainstream Charter companies who generally don't announce cancellations they just remove all trace of a cancelled tour from websites & social media etc....

Belmond website has today crossed through in the calendar, so probably not running unless that just means it's full. 4th August is next one shown for the Welsh trip.

The trip prior to the Welsh tour starting 4th August (which is still open for bookings);
The Lake District tour starting 1st August is showing 'FULLY BOOKED' - runner? Non-runner??
Looks like only time will tell.......

 

[317362]

A run happened with the actual carriages today from Victoria to Cranmore. Seems to be coming back in the morning. 66762/305.

Realtime Trains | 1Z10 1548 London Victoria to Cranmore | 27/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 1Z10 1548 departure from London Victoria to Cranmore on 27/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Simon B Guard]

Overnighting at Cranmore