New 4-tier system for England

[yorksrob]

Incidentally, it seems Colchester has been left out of tier 4, unlike most of the rest of Essex. The spread of the upgraded Covid is certainly very specific.

What a farce.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2020 ==



Very good point indeed, though hopefully we might have a better government / PM then...

Perhaps its down to Colchester being the capital of ancient Britannia !

No more bizarre than large areas of the North not being moved down to tier 2 in spite of falling and below average infection rates.

 

[DB]

In no way has there been a knee jerk reaction about the cancellation or delays to operations and cancer treatments.

The sooner people stop being so blase about this virus the better. I'm not advocating lockdowns, but people should be exercising caution at the very least.

The knee jerk reaction was cancelling them when they didn't need to. The NHS was nowhere near capacity over the summer.

 

[bramling]

In no way has there been a knee jerk reaction about the cancellation or delays to operations and cancer treatments.

The sooner people stop being so blase about this virus the better. I'm not advocating lockdowns, but people should be exercising caution at the very least.

I’m quite sure everyone on here is doing exactly that and exercising caution. But it is very difficult to draw any conclusion other than the smell of brown stuff from what came out of Downing Street today.

The fact that people are on here right into the late evening instead of being out doing other stuff kind of demonstrates that. This thread has certainly been informative, and I must admit to having smiled a couple of times, which is a rare treat in these times.

 

[Philip]

There is a good point about this; that there has been such bad handling and over-reaction from multiple governments over this coronavirus, with so many people completely fed up with it and now ignoring things compliance will be very low indeed when a far more dangerous pandemic with mortality north of 50% comes along - which it will one day - that would justify draconian measures. At that point, nobody will comply until it is far too late.

That scenario is very unlikely to happen as a virus which causes that rate of mortality will most likely fizzle out quickly as it can't survive without its host. Probably why bird flu has never become a pandemic and why SARS went away quickly before becoming a worldwide pandemic.

 

[yorksrob]

In no way has there been a knee jerk reaction about the cancellation or delays to operations and cancer treatments.

The sooner people stop being so blase about this virus the better. I'm not advocating lockdowns, but people should be exercising caution at the very least.

I advocate caution without lockdowns.

I meet a small bubble of friends outdoors, I work fom home most of the time, and when not do so in a socially distanced office. I am happy to visit hospitality either in small groups, or as a household (of one), yet all I get is lockdown and more lockdown.

I have no faith in the authorities or their advisors. They have poisoned that well.

 

[yorkie]

Try explaining that it’s “just one of those things” to the many suffering / dying people. Or the people who are trying to treat them / save their lives. They are unlikely to welcome your view.

What about those who are suffering due to loss of livelihoods, loneliness and many other factors and/or the harmful effects on their mental health?

Let's not forget the average age of a death with Covid is over 80, while younger people are at far more risk of factors such as suicide than Covid.

We have our priorities all wrong

 

[Richard Scott]

In no way has there been a knee jerk reaction about the cancellation or delays to operations and cancer treatments.

The sooner people stop being so blase about this virus the better. I'm not advocating lockdowns, but people should be exercising caution at the very least.

Yes it has. I've known quite a number of people who've had this virus now and not one of them has had serious issues, passed it on to granny or whatever. When are people going to realise that these measures will have far reaching consequences that are worse than the virus is causing. It's not being blasé, it's taking a reasoned approach, which our politicians are not.

 

[Philip]

I’m quite sure everyone on here is doing exactly that and exercising caution. But it is very difficult to draw any conclusion other than the smell of brown stuff from what came out of Downing Street today.

The fact that people are on here right into the late evening instead of being out doing other stuff kind of demonstrates that. This thread has certainly been informative, and I must admit to having smiled a couple of times, which is a rare treat in these times.

This is the problem though, in September when the unis started for the new term, too many people weren't exercising caution, likewise when pubs and bars reopened in summer. Nothing wrong with people meeting friends for some quiet drinks in pubs or wherever and it is very frustrating that we can't do that now, the impact on people's livelihoods and mental health is fundamental.
But there are some people who feel they've suffered because they haven't been able to go out on the lash or have not had the freshers week they feel is their privilege, this is where my sympathy ends...it is just a selfish attitude.

 

[Scotrail12]

This is the problem though, in September when the unis started for the new term, too many people weren't exercising caution, likewise when pubs and bars reopened in summer. Nothing wrong with people meeting friends for some quiet drinks in pubs or wherever and it is very frustrating that we can't do that now, the impact on people's livelihoods and mental health is fundamental.
But there are some people who feel they've suffered because they haven't been able to go out on the lash or have not had the freshers week they feel is their privilege, this is where my sympathy ends...it is just a selfish attitude.

Not exercising caution in what ways?

 

[Philip]

Yes it has. I've known quite a number of people who've had this virus now and not one of them has had serious issues, passed it on to granny or whatever. When are people going to realise that these measures will have far reaching consequences that are worse than the virus is causing. It's not being blasé, it's taking a reasoned approach, which our politicians are not.

With respect, the number of people you know who have had the virus will be a tiny fraction of all cases.

 

[Richard Scott]

Well, I am a student taking A Level English Language, English Literature and Drama and I completely refute this. A good third of Drama practical performances which cannot be rehearsed at home, let alone performed alongside other group members at home.

The other two might not require physically being in a classroom to some but my studies went to pot in lockdown as I lack the motivation and self-discipline to work at home. I find it incredibly hard to concentrate at home with all of my things distracting me and as a result procrastinate, which leads to bad A Levels in the summer.

Being absent from my friends and normal life at sixth form played havoc with my mental health, to the point where I was almost a different person. I need not tell you I wasn’t the only one. When the school re-opened for me I appreciated it so much more than I did before.

Being in school may not matter for some but it is very important for me and many others. We take good social distancing measures and all of Year 13 are in a bubble, as are other year groups. There have been minimal cases of COVID in the 1000ish student in the school and sixth form. This is why I am thankful that Mr Johnson has not closed them or let them being affected by these tiers.

I have upmost sympathy for you but, unfortunately, that doesn't help your position. I work with teenagers and many feel the same way. They want to be in school with their friends, learning in a classroom not from Google Classroom or Teams or any other online platform. I see their pain almost all every day and it's not good, kids who regularly smiled are now miserable and depressed. Those doing practical subjects are really suffering and even science practicals aren't going ahead.
For those who think we need these measures you need to see what it's doing to our younger generation and please don't tell them they'll get over it, they don't need your patronising comments telling them how they should feel. Remember it's the younger generation who will be paying your pension.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

With respect, the number of people you know who have had the virus will be a tiny fraction of all cases.

The number of people with long-term post-viral conditions will also be a tiny fraction of all cases, but they prop up a great story in the media so it seems there's a lot more of them than there actually are. There are post-viral conditions (similar to so called "long-COVID") that come with all viruses - COVID isn't alone in that respect.

 

[Philip]

Not exercising caution in what ways?

Getting plastered, organising or attending house parties or large crowded gatherings..to name a few.

 

[221101 Voyager]

The reason this annoys me most is that I'm a college student who studies Computing, why can't we work at home as we only need a normal windows computer 99% of the time and we don't really need to be in a classroom, it's just unnecessary risk in my eyes, made worse by the fact face coverings aren't mandatory in classrooms and 2m distancing is not done either.

@TT-ONR-NRN I noticed you cut out the bit where I explicitly said I study computing and that we specifically don't really have to be in a classroom. I understand that most people who study other courses are better off working on site, but for people like me we can manage at home quite well if needs be.
As all we do is look at a lesson online being tought from the classroom to the other half of the class at home anyways. Which is why I question why we even go in as the teacher doesn't engage with any of us in the classroom, so it's basically just a teacher staring at their PC for 3 hours straight and nobody in the classroom says a word. It's really boring and just really depressing.

Many others in my class have also expressed explicit dismay of classroom working on our course.

 

[Richard Scott]

This is the problem though, in September when the unis started for the new term, too many people weren't exercising caution, likewise when pubs and bars reopened in summer. Nothing wrong with people meeting friends for some quiet drinks in pubs or wherever and it is very frustrating that we can't do that now, the impact on people's livelihoods and mental health is fundamental.
But there are some people who feel they've suffered because they haven't been able to go out on the lash or have not had the freshers week they feel is their privilege, this is where my sympathy ends...it is just a selfish attitude.

Here we go again, blame people for not following the rules. The rules are made up by humans in belief we can control a virus, the virus doesn't respect rules. The two people at work who recently contracted the virus were probably the two that followed them to the letter. Please explain that.

 

[Philip]

The number of people with long-term post-viral conditions will also be a tiny fraction of all cases, but they prop up a great story in the media so it seems there's a lot more of them than there actually are. There are post-viral conditions (similar to so called "long-COVID") that come with all viruses - COVID isn't alone in that respect.

It's not about it being a great story, it is to advise people of the need to take care of themselves and others, by trying to reduce the chances of spreading infection.

 

[Richard Scott]

@TT-ONR-NRN I noticed you cut out the bit where I explicitly said I study computing and that we specifically don't really have to be in a classroom. I understand that most people who study other courses are better off working on site, but for people like me we can manage at home quite well if needs be.
As all we do is look at a lesson online being tought from the classroom to the other half of the class at home anyways. Which is why I question why we even go in as the teacher doesn't engage with any of us in the classroom, so it's basically just a teacher staring at their PC for 3 hours straight and nobody in the classroom says a word. It's really boring and just really depressing.

Many others in my class have also expressed explicit dismay of classroom working on our course.

That's the fault of the teacher then?

 

[yorksrob]

This is the problem though, in September when the unis started for the new term, too many people weren't exercising caution, likewise when pubs and bars reopened in summer. Nothing wrong with people meeting friends for some quiet drinks in pubs or wherever and it is very frustrating that we can't do that now, the impact on people's livelihoods and mental health is fundamental.
But there are some people who feel they've suffered because they haven't been able to go out on the lash or have not had the freshers week they feel is their privilege, this is where my sympathy ends...it is just a selfish attitude.

That would be the summer when the Government decided that University students should return.

Don't get me wrong, there are arguments for students getting teaching in person, and I'm not against it, but why should the inevitable rise in infection rates result in me not being allowed to sit on my own in a country pub ?

There is no logic.

 

[Philip]

Here we go again, blame people for not following the rules. The rules are made up by humans in belief we can control it a virus, the virus doesn't respect rules. The two people at work who recently contracted the virus were probably the two that followed them to the letter. Please explain that.

The rules are made up by humans to help us to protect each other and ultimately the health service.

 

[Richard Scott]

With respect, the number of people you know who have had the virus will be a tiny fraction of all cases.

But if it was the terrible killer virus it's made out to be at least one would have had something serious, surely?

 

[Philip]

That would be the summer when the Government decided that University students should return.

Don't get me wrong, there are arguments for students getting teaching in person, and I'm not against it, but why should the inevitable rise in infection rates result in me not being allowed to sit on my own in a country pub ?

There is no logic.

As I say, I'm not advocating the closure of pubs and if people are sensible there is minimal risk in a pub. But some people spoil it for others.

 

[Richard Scott]

As I say, I'm not advocating the closure of pubs and if people are sensible there is minimal risk in a pub. But some people spoil it for others.

But that happens in all areas of life, we need to accept that. I'm not advocating that sort of behaviour but you'll never stop it.

 

[yorksrob]

As I say, I'm not advocating the closure of pubs and if people are sensible there is minimal risk in a pub. But some people spoil it for others.

Well, as Andy Burnham said, why not give local authorities the authority to inspect and close hospitality venues that aren't complying ?

No, just shut everything down, that's the Government and SAGE's answer to everything.

 

[Philip]

But if it was the terrible killer virus it's made out to be at least one would have had something serious, surely?

No one has described it as a terrible killer virus. But the rate of people falling seriously ill or dying or having long term side effects is still a lot higher than seasonal flu and colds; when you factor in how infectious it is and the long incubation period, this is why caution is needed.

 

[yorkie]

No one has described it as a terrible killer virus. But the rate of people falling seriously ill or dying or having long term side effects is still a lot higher than seasonal flu and colds...

It's still a tiny percentage though; and the main reason for that is that we have not (yet) built up as much immunity as we have against viruses that are already endemic.

For younger people, 'flu poses a greater risk.

 

[Philip]

What about those who are suffering due to loss of livelihoods, loneliness and many other factors and/or the harmful effects on their mental health?

Let's not forget the average age of a death with Covid is over 80, while younger people are at far more risk of factors such as suicide than Covid.

We have our priorities all wrong

What about young people who for whatever medical reason are extremely vulnerable and are scared to venture out whilst this virus is rife and thus also seeing their livelihoods affected and quite possibly their mental health too? There are many variables here on both sides.

 

[yorksrob]

What about young people who for whatever medical reason are extremely vulnerable and are scared to venture out whilst this virus is rife and thus also seeing their livelihoods affected and quite possibly their mental health too?

As opposed to lockdown when they're not allowed out anyway ?

At least they should be able to make their own assessment.

 

[Richard Scott]

No one has described it as a terrible killer virus. But the rate of people falling seriously ill or dying or having long term side effects is still a lot higher than seasonal flu and colds; when you factor in how infectious it is and the long incubation period, this is why caution is needed.

Caution is needed not the knee jerk reaction giving us restrictions we currently have.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2020 ==

What about young people who for whatever medical reason are extremely vulnerable and are scared to venture out whilst this virus is rife and thus also seeing their livelihoods affected and quite possibly their mental health too? There are many variables here on both sides.

There are very few of those I can guarantee that, in local secondary school some are wary but none that I am aware of aren't coming in. In the end who's fault is it they're like that? Probably parents and the government. They weren't like it in February, the real risks need explaining to them. Those who really are at risk are incredibly small in number so all others have to suffer do they?

 

[DB]

What about young people who for whatever medical reason are extremely vulnerable and are scared to venture out whilst this virus is rife and thus also seeing their livelihoods affected and quite possibly their mental health too? There are many variables here on both sides.

They are a small minority. It is not proportionate to blight the lives of everyone in the mistaken belief that this protects minorities. The number of outbreaks In care homes which are still occurring shows this. Targeted measures would be better for everyone.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

@TT-ONR-NRN I noticed you cut out the bit where I explicitly said I study computing and that we specifically don't really have to be in a classroom. I understand that most people who study other courses are better off working on site, but for people like me we can manage at home quite well if needs be.
As all we do is look at a lesson online being tought from the classroom to the other half of the class at home anyways. Which is why I question why we even go in as the teacher doesn't engage with any of us in the classroom, so it's basically just a teacher staring at their PC for 3 hours straight and nobody in the classroom says a word. It's really boring and just really depressing.

Many others in my class have also expressed explicit dismay of classroom working on our course.

Apologies, I thought you were suggesting all students should work from home. I didn’t realise you specifically meant those on your course.