New 4-tier system for England

[TUC]

Well, actually, I sat in a lot of pubs after the first lockdown, and they were full of groups keeping themselves to themselves enjoying the table service.

The idea that we were all crowding around the piano singing "The Old Bull'N'Bush" couldn't be further from the truth.

Exactly. I do get the impression that too many ministers and officials think every pub is like a packed Lindon bar rather than the cakm, seated establishments that were working perfectly well near us.

Another example of London-centric attitudes at their worst.

 

[initiation]

Honestly I felt devastated after this news; I'm in a secure job with a decent wage, own a house, partner etc.. but the last few months have been just utterly grinding me down.

How can people give up such freedoms without complaint (or a vote in parliament)? Only a few days ago Boris was saying it was inhumane to cancel Christmas yet here we are. Why does the media not question the scare stories or the narrative? Where is the opposition?

You could tell it was coming as soon as we learnt both Whitty and Valance would be there. I live 4.5hrs drive from my other half's family so can't go there for just one or two days. My family is slightly closer (2hr) but mum is now tier 4 and dad is a locktavist.

I am probably still classes as young (30) but have voted Conservative at the last 3 elections. I will never be voting Conservative again.

 

[alistairlees]

Well, actually, I sat in a lot of pubs after the first lockdown, and they were full of groups keeping themselves to themselves enjoying the table service.

The idea that we were all crowding around the piano singing "The Old Bull'N'Bush" couldn't be further from the truth.

Well done. There were many scenes in cities of people who were not so well behaved though.

 

[221129]

Try explaining that it’s “just one of those things” to the many suffering / dying people. Or the people who are trying to treat them / save their lives. They are unlikely to welcome your view.

People die, saving the 1% at the expense of the 99% is incredibly stupid.

 

[bramling]

Try explaining that it’s “just one of those things” to the many suffering / dying people. Or the people who are trying to treat them / save their lives. They are unlikely to welcome your view.

However such people need to widen their outlook to consider the fact that these measures will also be imposing severe effects on other groups of people. Even Whitty acknowledged today that shielding has had detrimental effects on the people it was supposed to protect.

They may also like to consider that the average age of a Covid death more or less accords with normal life expectancy.

 

[DB]

Try explaining that it’s “just one of those things” to the many suffering / dying people. Or the people who are trying to treat them / save their lives. They are unlikely to welcome your view.

Emotive comments like that don't alter the reality - it is a seasonal respiratory virus, and it will do what such viruses do! Hiding behind the sofa will at most slow it down a little bit, at vast cost in terms of society, economy and other aspects of healthdcare.

 

[yorksrob]

Well done. There were many scenes in cities of people who were not so well behaved though.

Well done you.

Not my experience I'm afraid. And however people behaved, that doesn't justify the scapegoating of hospitality in contradiction of all proportion of its effect on the situation.

 

[Ianno87]

Well done. There were many scenes in cities of people who were not so well behaved though.

I happened to be in Brighton on Halloween and, I was flabbergasted at the lack of on-street social distancing in the late evening.

 

[alistairlees]

What’s the best strategy then?

 

[43096]

Try explaining that it’s “just one of those things” to the many suffering / dying people. Or the people who are trying to treat them / save their lives. They are unlikely to welcome your view.

Oh spare us the emotional blackmail. People die - it happens to all of us sooner or later. It is just nature - viruses are a fact of life and will always spread despite whatever the idiots running the country (I use the term loosely) think. Thinking that somehow the human race is "bigger" than nature is frankly just deluded.

 

[yorksrob]

What’s the best strategy then?

The virus thrives whenever people are crowded indoors.

The best strategy is to maintain social distancing in such venues and keep them open so that people don't crowd elsewhere and in unsupervised settings.

 

[43096]

What’s the best strategy then?

Ah, the favourite question of the locktivists, who can't face up to the fact that the lockdown strategy has been an unmitigated disaster.

 

[DB]

What’s the best strategy then?

Sensible, low-key guidance which doesn't completely shaft whole industries, while at the same time taking such measures as are possible to protect those partiuclarly at risk.

 

[Hardcastle]

Try 'No-one is to blame' by Howard Jones'. Just about sums it all up especially the line 'you can feel the punishment but you can't commit the sin'.

I go for dont believe a word by Thin Lizzy.

 

[brad465]

Oh spare us the emotional blackmail. People die - it happens to all of us sooner or later. It is just nature - viruses are a fact of life and will always spread despite whatever the idiots running the country (I use the term loosely) think. Thinking that somehow the human race is "bigger" than nature is frankly just deluded.

Couldn't agree more, we seem to have become obsessed with keeping people alive for as long as possible without giving wider thought to quality of life. These restrictions are an extreme demonstration of that, where it's been a low key debate in wider society around the physical and wellbeing cost to artificially extending lives. Unfortunately I don't see the realisation of all this happening until after the pandemic is officially over when suffering and loss of life from the fallout is more noticeable.

 

[43096]

Couldn't agree more, we seem to have become obsessed with keeping people alive for as long as possible without giving wider thought to quality of life. These restrictions are an extreme demonstration of that, where it's been a low key debate in wider society around the physical and wellbeing cost to artificially extending lives. Unfortunately I don't see the realisation of all this happening until after the pandemic is officially over when suffering and loss of life from the fallout is more noticeable.

Any sane, rational, assessment would say that borrowing over £200 billion to keep an unknown quantity of people (but less than 60,000) alive a bit longer is not a good strategy.

 

[yorksrob]

Exactly. I do get the impression that too many ministers and officials think every pub is like a packed Lindon bar rather than the cakm, seated establishments that were working perfectly well near us.

Another example of London-centric attitudes at their worst.

Yes, indeed. I'd happilly take Whitty and Vallance around my favourite pubs to experience them operating in socially distanced mode.

But then, if the new super strain gets through PPE, perhaps we ought to give up on social distancing altogether and just get on with it.

 

[221101 Voyager]

Must say I did smile at the “new improved version now available” bit! I wonder if this will trigger some conspiracy theories about this virus being man-made as a deliberate act. One does wonder at times given the sheer chaos it’s causing, seemingly mainly in western countries.

Don't you think it was a bit fishy about how this virus came about? I don't know wether it was man made or not, but either way something wasn't quite right.

Sensible, low-key guidance which doesn't completely shaft whole industries, while at the same time taking such measures as are possible to protect those partiuclarly at risk.

Nice bit of common sense there, sir! Thank you!

I happened to be in Brighton on Halloween and, I was flabbergasted at the lack of on-street social distancing in the late evening.

I see it all the time, it really annoys me when you see streets on the news etc. and you see people blatantly not following rules!

Couldn't agree more, we seem to have become obsessed with keeping people alive for as long as possible without giving wider thought to quality of life. These restrictions are an extreme demonstration of that, where it's been a low key debate in wider society around the physical and wellbeing cost to artificially extending lives. Unfortunately I don't see the realisation of all this happening until after the pandemic is officially over when suffering and loss of life from the fallout is more noticeable.

Well said, couldn't agree more.



In terms of lockdowns, I'm firmly against them, as the 2nd one was a complete waste of time, cases are now nearly back where they were pre 2nd lockdown.

I also hate the rule of work from home if you can. Because they still keep colleges and schools open!

The reason this annoys me most is that I'm a college student who studies Computing, why can't we work at home as we only need a normal windows computer 99% of the time and we don't really need to be in a classroom, it's just unnecessary risk in my eyes, made worse by the fact face coverings aren't mandatory in classrooms and 2m distancing is not done either.

 

[bramling]

Yes, indeed. I'd happilly take Whitty and Vallance around my favourite pubs to experience them operating in socially distanced mode.

But then, if the new super strain gets through PPE, perhaps we ought to give up on social distancing altogether and just get on with it.

Well it gets through PPE, but can’t get past Watford Gap. If this virus is the work of some devious scientist somewhere, they’ve played a blinder with that one.

 

[yorksrob]

Well it gets through PPE, but can’t get past Watford Gap. If this virus is the work of some devious scientist somewhere, they’ve played a blinder with that one.

Ha ha, we don't need devious scientists when we have humanities inability to learn from past mistakes !

 

[gaillark]

Ah, the favourite question of the locktivists, who can't face up to the fact that the lockdown strategy has been an unmitigated disaster.

Here here!
The British Brainwashing Corporation (BBC) is doing a superb job of spreading fear. They are doing a better job spreading 'fear propaganda' than the Soviets ever managed to do!

 

[trebor79]

Really there should have been some expectation management over time regarding Christmas. *Yet again* BJ has managed to find the sweet-spot of both posing everyone off and having the most damaging economic effect.

I don't understand the 1 day thing, it's not logical. How is seeing people for 1 day less risky than seeing the same people for 5 days?
I suspect the advisors wanted no Christmas bubbles at all, and this was the political compromise. As usual with political compromises it is unlikely to have the desired effect and serves only to annoy and depress people. The worst of both worlds.
Johnson hadn't got the balls or gumption to be a leader. He needs to fall on his sword or be (politically) decapitated. He won't do the former and nobody is going to do the latter until there is genuine progress towards normality.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2020 ==

The reason this annoys me most is that I'm a college student who studies Computing, why can't we work at home as we only need a normal windows computer 99% of the time and we don't really need to be in a classroom, it's just unnecessary risk in my eyes, made worse by the fact face coverings aren't mandatory in classrooms and 2m distancing is not done either.

Assuming you aren't a mature student or have some medical condition that makes you vulnerable, you are at essentially zero risk from COVID.
As someone who's sat in a home office for 9 months, it's absolutely soul destroying. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[yorksrob]

I don't understand the 1 day thing, it's not logical. How is seeing people for 1 day less risky than seeing the same people for 5 days?
I suspect the advisors wanted no Christmas bubbles at all, and this was the political compromise. As usual with political compromises it is unlikely to have the desired effect and serves only to annoy and depress people. The worst of both worlds.
Johnson hadn't got the balls or gumption to be a leader. He needs to fall on his sword or be (politically) decapitated. He won't do the former and nobody is going to do the latter until there is genuine progress towards normality.

Perhaps it's a numbers game. If you remove the plebs who would otherwise use public transport, there are fewer left who are motoring.

Speaking as a pleb myself, I of course disagree with such a position.

 

[DB]

The rules basically mean that those reliant on public transport can't see family at Christmas.

No doubt many will just ignore the rules.

 

[bramling]

Perhaps it's a numbers game. If you remove the plebs who would otherwise use public transport, there are fewer left who are motoring.

Speaking as a pleb myself, I of course disagree with such a position.

But wouldn’t many of these plebs simply travel some time between now and the 24th, and attempt to return on the 27th, and stick their finger up at Boris? Judging by the St Pancras twitter scenes it seems some are doing exactly that. Just like many car owners will do.

I still think this is going to go mainly two ways - those who were originally planning to avoid certain relatives for Covid reasons still will, and those that weren’t still won’t. Perhaps news of the new improved Covid may tip a few towards the first subset, but a lot of people are still going to do their own thing.

 

[Philip]

I don't like lockdown and I think it is doing more harm than good now both to business and individuals. However, let's not start playing down this virus as 'just a seasonal virus', as this kind of statement encourages complacency. It isn't seasonal, it has been prevalent throughout the year; more so in colder months but only the first lockdown got the case numbers right down for Summer. It is also much worse than flu, we can see this through the number of people admitted to hospital and those becoming seriously ill.

Seasonal flu has not led to hospitals being stretched to the point where routine operations are postponed for many months and more seriously cancer treatment and referrals being delayed, like covid has done.

 

[SuspectUsual]

If nothing else, all of this has taught us another Johnson character trait. We knew he was a selfish charlatan (pro-remain then pro-Brexit when he saw he had more to gain), we knew he had no attention to detail, we knew his personal morals were bankrupt (multiple affairs, the Darius Guppy thing). We now know he’s spineless and stupid. How a politician in such uncertain times can choose, without any pressure, to repeatedly make themselves hostages to fortune is beyond me. It’ll all be fine by Easter. Yeah, whatever.

 

[Spamcan81]

People die, saving the 1% at the expense of the 99% is incredibly stupid.

I presume you wouldn't mind being in that 1% then?

 

[jtuk]

Genuine question - what's in it for Boris, Whitty etc. in prolonging the controlling as long as possible? I would have thought they too would be hoping for something like normality to return.

The longer they can drag this out, the longer they can delay the public inquiry in which they are all found to be criminally liable for hundreds of thousands of deaths.

 

[yorksrob]

But wouldn’t many of these plebs simply travel some time between now and the 24th, and attempt to return on the 27th, and stick their finger up at Boris? Judging by the St Pancras twitter scenes it seems some are doing exactly that. Just like many car owners will do.

I still think this is going to go mainly two ways - those who were originally planning to avoid certain relatives for Covid reasons still will, and those that weren’t still won’t. Perhaps news of the new improved Covid may tip a few towards the first subset, but a lot of people are still going to do their own thing.

Well, it's complicated. Personally, I was planning a distanced outdoor visit to the relatives, however as they are now in the dreaded tier four, this seems unlikely. I was also planning a trip on the InterCity125 to get there, but that's peripheral !!