New 378 Delivery

[313103]

Sorry but i have to disagree here...TFL say the wide gangways make the train feel much safer than the current 313s...well, i was mugged a few weeks ago on my way home and since then ive become more wary when im out and about of the people around me:roll: ...

First of all sorry to hear of your incident, there are a few things i need to ask.

1. Did this take place on a class 378?

2. If it did on what route was you on?

3. If you was on a route that has Conductors (ie the NLL or the WLL) was the Conductor visible?

4. Did you report the incident to a member of staff (these trains are fitted with live recordings)?

5. Have you reported the matter to London Overground and the BTP?

As a Conductor on these trains i would be very concerned that a member of the public got assaulted on board a train where a member of staff is visible.

If you have the details of your incident perhaps you could pm me, then i could try and get the culprits brought to justice.

 

[vitesse]

Question that's bugged me about the 378s. Does anyone know why the pantograph on the 378s always makes a massive banging noise, as if it keeps hitting something? The number of times I've been on one and there's been a massive bong and people have jumped!

Thats the VCB opening/closing and yes its suprisingly loud. You'll notice it mostly between Kentish Town West and Camden Road along with sustaining whiplash injuries as the unit lurches, for some reason they dont like passing through neutral sections at 20mph/lower. You'll also hear it at Camden Road/Dalston/Acton Central at AC/DC changeover locations.

You forgot the rock hard/lack of seats

When people were surveyed they mosty do short journey of around say 5-6 stations max and wanted more room and to be able to get on/off easier, so thats what the majority wanted...and thats what they got.

However, I must admit, i do think it would be better to have say 2+2 or maybe 3+2 between the gangway and first set of doors for the vehicle, as off-peak services are far less packed and it would give at least some comfortable seating.

 

[Minstral25]

Will the new 378's on the East London Line also have the same "no" seat arrangement?

West Croydon to Dalston will be 47 minutes - whilst I suspect few passengers will do that but there definitely will be some and there will be a lot of passengers for the 30 minutes from Canada Water - which is likely to be busy all day

I can see a lot of disgruntled passengers used to their nice Southern Trains swapping to this service and then back again. This is not really a tube route so why put tube trains on them.

I feel sorry for the District Line passengers when they get their new "S" stock as they will have the same silly seat arrangement. Works in tube trains - not in the big stuff!

 

[jopsuk]

The only difference between the /0 (future /2) on the WLL and NLL and the /1 for the ELL is the AC kit- the /1 is Third Rail DC only.

As for the District Line, most of the seating in the D stock and all in the C stock is longitudinal. It's the much longer Metropolitan line passengers that'll be upset by the S-stock replacing their A-Stock- don't see why, seeing as the S8 (eight car) will be for the Met only (with the other three lines sharing the S7) those can't be set up suitably...

 

[Mojo]

I think the new seating layout is quite good. I was on the platform at Clapham once & there were several cancellations and we all managed to fit on the train, only because of the way it's been designed. Sure there are some long journeys, Richmond to Stratford at over an hour (even if someone did do the whole journey, even though it's quicker to go the other way, they'd still not have to stand as people get on & off all the time) but similar journeys exist on LU from the ends of lines and there are little problems.

 

[Minstral25]

District Line Stock - S8 will have two groups of two facing fours in each carriage. The S7 stock will all be purely longitudinal in all versions. I can understand the S7 for the Circle and Hammersmith lines being this way as it is all central London short journeys, but the District line out to Upminster - there will be some long journeys, family groups as well and this arrangement is not set up for that. I predict customer dissatisfaction.

Mojo - the North London line is mostly short journeys (up to 5 stations) plus it is traditionally run with units about half the length necessary so it's standing all day long.

I don't think the East London Line will be the same, with many longer distance commutes likely - me for one I'll be on the trains for 28 minutes and 12 stops. Really standing for all that time will not be a good commute and I bet I will have to.

 

[thefab444]

28 minutes standing isn't exactly a long time compared to other flows!

 

[dpb]

Anyone know what's happening with 001 and 004, and if/when they'll enter passenger service?

 

[Minstral25]

28 minutes standing isn't exactly a long time compared to other flows!

Sadly it is the DFT/TFL's plan to make commutes all standing. A 377 carriage has (I think) 72 seats in Suburban flows against the 34 in a 378.

They have spent billions on building a new railway and they saved a few hundred million by squeezing passengers into standing cattle trucks instead of providing the 6 car trains and platforms the service probably needs in the first place.

No I don't like the idea of TFL's cattle trucks on routes that proper trains should be provided and I do not like the interior of the 378's much.

I do see their point in tube trains which have little space anyway for transverse seats and on the North London Line where most journeys are under 15 minutes. I think the East London line as extended to West Croydon and Crystal Palace and LU's District line are not suited to this type of stock.

It should not be policy for passengers to stand longer than 15 minutes.

I also don't get why TFL insists that all trains on Southern Metro should be 10-car long and then build a 4-car East London Railway. Hence trains between West Croydon and New Cross Gate will be a combination of reduced frequency 10-car Southern Metro services to London Bridge and 4-car ELL trains

And as I am on a bandwagon, sorry guys, why didn't they build a connection station at Shoreditch High Street with the Central Line which runs directly under the new station.

 

[313103]

May i ask what is guarenteed when you purchase a ticket?

 

[A60K]

That they will take your money. Anything else is a bonus!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And as I am on a bandwagon, sorry guys, why didn't they build a connection station at Shoreditch High Street with the Central Line which runs directly under the new station.

That was in the original 1990s plans, but had to be dropped because the Central line is simply too busy at this point to allow another stop (believe Stratford to Bank is just about the most overcrowed section of LU line). If Crossrail had been built as planned 20 years ago then there might have been a better chance of a Central line station, assuming finance could have been found.

 

[313103]

It should not be policy for passengers to stand longer than 15 minutes.

Then the railways should either go for the airline aproach, in other words you will only board a train that guarentees you a seat otherwise you cant board. Or extend all trains to minumum of 30 coaches therefore also guarenteeing you a seat. I think disgusted of Tunbridge Wells will have something to say on that.

Better still how about a mixture of the two above?

You may think im being stupid for putting something like that down, but eh so is the person who suggest standing is not permitted after 15 minutes. The mind boggles:roll:

 

[poshbakerloo]

I've had to stand over some very long services! 2.5hrs XC Macclesfield-Oxford anyone? Well in the end I sat on the floor eww haha!
It was awful! And I've had to stand Stockport-Sheffield, and Sheffield-Lincoln several times...but I think I've gotten used to that now!

500th post!

 

[Minstral25]

That was in the original 1990s plans, but had to be dropped because the Central line is simply too busy at this point to allow another stop (believe Stratford to Bank is just about the most overcrowed section of LU line). If Crossrail had been built as planned 20 years ago then there might have been a better chance of a Central line station, assuming finance could have been found.

That sounds very likely, but Crossrail has been planned for ages and they must have known it would relieve the flow. It's money of course. Same reason for the all standing cattle truck carriages, rather than build a proper railway with long enough trains they skimped.

I'd hate to travel on that bit of the underground if it is worse than London Bridge - Northern Line north/Jubilee West and East all leave passengers behind regularly - so if the Central is more packed - whew!! feel sorry for those guys

 

[vitesse]

I don't think the East London Line will be the same, with many longer distance commutes likely - me for one I'll be on the trains for 28 minutes and 12 stops. Really standing for all that time will not be a good commute and I bet I will have to.

Its the same as any other service in peak times though, I travel regularly on NXEA and even on a 12 car there is often barely even standing room and from New X Gate into London Bridge, often lucky to even be able to fit on let alone get a seat

 

[Drsatan]

It should not be policy for passengers to stand longer than 15 minutes.

I also don't get why TFL insists that all trains on Southern Metro should be 10-car long and then build a 4-car East London Railway. Hence trains between West Croydon and New Cross Gate will be a combination of reduced frequency 10-car Southern Metro services to London Bridge and 4-car ELL trains

The ability to run trains longer than 4 cars on the East London Line, the North London Line and the Watford DC lines would depend on who's willing to build (and pay for) platform extensions. Because NR owns most of the track LOROL trains run on, and maintains the infrastructure (although I presume LOROL owns New Cross Gate - Dalston Junction), it would be up to NR to build platform extensions, but LOROL/TfL would have to fund them. So there would be an immediate conflict of interest.

Other than that, no-one should have to stand for 15 minutes. I've read (and experienced) trains that are so crowded that if they were carrying cattle, the RSPCA would get involved:roll:. When the next wave of franchise re-letting takes place maybe the DafT would be so kind as to put in a clause in each operator's franchise agreement which means the next operator has a duty to reduce the mean time passengers have to stand on the most crowded services? Don't hold your breath, it would be too difficult.

 

[thefab444]

I've had to stand over some very long services! 2.5hrs XC Macclesfield-Oxford anyone?

Ouch, that's bad! The worst I've had to to do is Southampton - Clapham (1.25 hours), or Romsey - Bath (1.25 hours).

 

[313103]

Whilst we are on the topic of Standing on a quite a few times ive stood London to Cardiff and on two occasions ive had to stand London to Port Talbot Parkway. Ive also had to endure standing between Newcastle and Kings Cross.

Going back to class 378 if your a Conductor on these trains you required to stand throughout your diagram so if your on trains say 9 hours out of a 9.40 diagram your expected to stand and patrol by walking through the train for 9 hours less the 40 minute you have for yur break.

So whilst you may not like standing for 27.5 minutes on a crowded train why not ghost a London Overground Conductor for a day?

 

[Mojo]

Try being station staff The only time I'm allowed to sit down is on my breaks. At least you are in the warm in winter and the cool in summer

 

[A60K]

That sounds very likely, but Crossrail has been planned for ages and they must have known it would relieve the flow. It's money of course. Same reason for the all standing cattle truck carriages, rather than build a proper railway with long enough trains they skimped.

I'd hate to travel on that bit of the underground if it is worse than London Bridge - Northern Line north/Jubilee West and East all leave passengers behind regularly - so if the Central is more packed - whew!! feel sorry for those guys

I know someone who travels east from Bethnal Green simply so they can get on a westbound train at Mile End, it's that busy in the peak.

As you say, Crossrail has been planned for ages - and that's one of the reasons that no Central line station is being built now. Assuming that Crossrail does finally go ahead, it won't be open for another 8 years.

If you had built a Central line station at Shoreditch High Street now it would very likely have to stay closed at peak hours until Crossrail opens to avoid exacerbating the overcrowding on this section of the line.


When and if Crossrail is built it will have an interchange with the East London Line at Whitechapel - that wasn't in the original 1989 plans, and probably makes the financial case for an additional Central line station unsustainable.

 

[SWT Driver]

of course the easiest way is to suppress demand by upping the fares, if you go far enough then everyone gets a seat even in the rush hour, the companies make the same amount of profit and there is less wear and tear on the trains. Everyone's a winner except the roads but who cares about them!

 

[Minstral25]

A60K - done that a few times myself - not at Bethnal Green though

Obviously they did think about it and put the connection at Whitechapel for the City. Didn't realise they had stopped Crossrail at Whitechapel.

Cool idea SWT, sure that's what they are doing anyway or is that 1st class?

Still don't like the interior of 378's though - why make a train that could have 72 seats with only 34? 90% of the journeys the train makes will not be full, and many of them will have just 40 passengers on - bit of the shame when 8 of them have to stand or sit on someone's lap