Networker refurb - not great is it?

[ScotGG]

Having seen the current refurbishment do little for the tatty Southeastern Networkers I saw this which nicely rounds up the flaws that remain (with pics)

http://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/2017/10/10/southeastern-trains-are-being-refurbished-no-really/

I guess its not worth doing much if they are going with the start of a new franchise in 2018 but if so why even do what they are doing? Could they just stay in service (with derogation if needed) until 2020/21 and scrap?

Out of interest, how many EMU trains are as old (25 years) without a decent refurb during their life? 313s on Great Northern? Now 319s are gone not many.

Most older stock looks a lot better inside (SW 455s etc)

 

[Mikey C]

Agreed that the Networkers look shabby inside, but quoting that article

"And generally they just look very tired and drab. Ambience and feel matters. If carriages look welcoming, clean and well-maintained then people are attracted to using public transport."

Not really an issue with London commuting stock, people use them in vast numbers as that's how they get to work, lack of carriages not lack of passengers is a bigger problem!

 

[317666]

The 313s on the GN have been refurbished twice - once under WAGN which saw the replacement of the original low-back seats, and a more minor refresh under FCC. You have to remember it wasn't that long ago that the 465s still had NSE seat covers!

 

[ScotGG]

You're right Mikey in terms of rush hour travel but there's big scope I think to increase off-peak numbers. The entire experience of travelling in the evenings is quite different on SE Metro to, say, London Overground.

The trains are a lot more drab and less welcoming. Then there's the lack of staff on stations. Both LO and SE pass through very densely populated areas in London but LO seems a lot busier in the evenings. The stock, stations and staffing all play a role in that.

 

[Bromley boy]

Having seen the current refurbishment do little for the tatty Southeastern Networkers I saw this which nicely rounds up the flaws that remain (with pics)

http://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/2017/10/10/southeastern-trains-are-being-refurbished-no-really/

I guess its not worth doing much if they are going with the start of a new franchise in 2018 but if so why even do what they are doing? Could they just stay in service (with derogation if needed) until 2020/21 and scrap?

Out of interest, how many EMU trains are as old (25 years) without a decent refurb during their life? 313s on Great Northern? Now 319s are gone not many.

Most older stock looks a lot better inside (SW 455s etc)

Agreed they are now very tired inside and the recent refresh is pretty laughable.

It seems unlikely they’ll all be scrapped in 2019 - I know new stock was mentioned in the SE consultation document but it would seem very expensive to replace trains that, despite appearances, aren’t actually that old. They must have a good 10-15 years design life left (assuming approx. 40 years from 1991-1994 when the majority were built). Especially considering the number running around the southeast.

There also isn’t anywhere they could usefully be sent as DC only stock so replacement would = scrap. Much less advantagous than replacing 319s with 700s, for example which had the double whammy of new stock for the south and new (to them) stock for the north.

I’ve always assumed (as per the article) the poor refurbishment is because there’s little incentive for SE to spend much on the networkers before the franchise comes to an end* and perhaps more will be done when the franchise next changes hands.

*that being said the 375s are being refreshed and I’m not sure how this has been funded so close to the end of the franchise. I assume it was a requirement of the original franchise doc.

 

[MatthewRead]

Having seen the current refurbishment do little for the tatty Southeastern Networkers I saw this which nicely rounds up the flaws that remain (with pics)

http://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/2017/10/10/southeastern-trains-are-being-refurbished-no-really/

I guess its not worth doing much if they are going with the start of a new franchise in 2018 but if so why even do what they are doing? Could they just stay in service (with derogation if needed) until 2020/21 and scrap?

Out of interest, how many EMU trains are as old (25 years) without a decent refurb during their life? 313s on Great Northern? Now 319s are gone not many.

Most older stock looks a lot better inside (SW 455s etc)

They ought to look at the condition of the Sothern Electrostars and at Gatwick Express and GWR's to and those seats are newer!

 

[Wivenswold]

The GA refresh on the 317/321s is miles ahead of this treatment (save for the DDA toilet) and they're probably heading for scrap in 2 years.