Networker/Electrostar/Turbostar connections

[frankmoh]

I have heard on this website that the Electrostars were designed to be a derivative of the Networkers or to be an evolution of the design ideas from the 465/365. How true is this claim?

Also adding Turbostars for the sake of including the other Networkers, but I think this connection is more obvious, especially with the 168/0.

Seriously, how did Adtranz get away with ripping off the 165's cab ends for the 168/0?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jul 2025 ==

I'm pretty sure the 168 isn't called a Turbostar because of the /0. Maybe true given how the /1 and /2 are literally Class 170s.

 

[Russel]

Adtranz didn't rip anything off, it's an evolution of the original BREL Networker Turbo design that they inherited.

Someone with better knowledge will be along to provide more info I'm sure.

A quick scan of the Wiki article will enlighten you.

 

[edwin_m]

The 170 is mechanically similar to the Networker Turbos with the same basic bogie design but with a different bodyshell, constructed by bolting together aluminium panels rather than welding them as on the Networkers and the 158s.

The Electrostars used a similar body construction to the 170 (but shorter and a bit wider) and also used the same basic bogie design as the Networkers, but had different traction systems.

I believe the original idea of the "Star" units was that the buyer could specify the front end design and the interior, but the rest of the body was pretty much standard. Chiltern wanted the 168s to look like the 165s but all subsequent purchases were to standard gangwayed or non-gangwayed end designs. Minor variations in lamp clusters in the later series were probably due to replacement of filament lamps by LEDs.

 

[frankmoh]

Adtranz didn't rip anything off, it's an evolution of the original BREL Networker Turbo design that they inherited.

Someone with better knowledge will be along to provide more info I'm sure.

A quick scan of the Wiki article will enlighten you.

My fault for not looking at the article hard enough to find out they were made in the same factory.

 

[Russel]

My fault for not looking at the article hard enough to find out they were made in the same factory.

It's a bit of a complex history to be fair.

What is scary is to realize the Turbostars are 20 years old, I remember being really excited to ride one from Tamworth into Birmingham as a kid with my dad just after they were introduced at Central Trains and now me and my son do the same journey on the same trains just in a different livery.

 

[frankmoh]

It's a bit of a complex history to be fair.

What is scary is to realize the Turbostars are 20 years old, I remember being really excited to ride one from Tamworth into Birmingham as a kid with my dad just after they were introduced at Central Trains and now me and my son do the same journey on the same trains just in a different livery.

The whole Turbo/Electrostar line is 25+ years old now. I still remember as a kid thinking the 376's were the hottest thing on the block even though this would've been in 2014/2015 (so when the trains were already 10 years old!).

Granted now in the summertime those 376s are brutal to sit in so my observation is still true. I've noticed them less this summer, probably for good reason.

 

[Zomboid]

The 168/0 does like like a 165 that's melted a bit. Not a triumph of cab end styling, that one. And probably no shock that they just went with the 357/170 style ends on subsequent orders.

 

[JonathanH]

My fault for not looking at the article hard enough to find out they were made in the same factory.

Not quite. Turbos and Networkers were built at York, while Derby was busy with the 158s. York closed after building the 365s, with production of the next models at Derby.

 

[SolomonSouth]

The whole Turbo/Electrostar line is 25+ years old now. I still remember as a kid thinking the 376's were the hottest thing on the block even though this would've been in 2014/2015 (so when the trains were already 10 years old!).

Granted now in the summertime those 376s are brutal to sit in so my observation is still true. I've noticed them less this summer, probably for good reason.

Yeah, the 168 is 27 years old, and the 357 is 25/26. Most of the others are 21-24.

They have aged decently well, but the Desiros are still a more robust design - more reliable and have aged even better.

 

[frankmoh]

Yeah, the 168 is 27 years old, and the 357 is 25/26. Most of the others are 21-24.

They have aged decently well, but the Desiros are still a more robust design - more reliable and have aged even better.

The Class 707 is 8 years old. I still think they're brand new. (probably because I have only seen them on SE lines for 2 years)

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I came up with a theory that the original Clubman front end was the same front end as NSE’s proposed rolling stock for the original Crossrail. I’m sure I’ve also heard that the 168s were actually reclassified 171s which NSE were going to build.

 

[SolomonSouth]

The Class 707 is 8 years old. I still think they're brand new. (probably because I have only seen them on SE lines for 2 years)

By "Desiros," I meant the 350/360 generation, which are a similar age to Electrostars.

 

[frankmoh]

By "Desiros," I meant the 350/360 generation, which are a similar age to Electrostars.

That's odd to think about.