Network Southeast to Birmingham

[rmHawk765]

I hope we see this kind of thing come back with GBR.

I don't think it will be possible for as long as ROSCOs remain existent.

 

[43096]

That was what was so great about BR (and to be fair, a hypothetical privatised equivalent of BR).

Being one organisation, a sector could "borrow" another sector's units and locos where it made sense for operational reasons. Rather than RR having to have a couple of extra units to cover these morning workings, they use NSE's 321s because they're not needed for their own purposes at that time in the morning. Completely sensible, and logical.

I hope we see this kind of thing come back with GBR.

Which was not really different to what would happen now - the borrowing sector would pay for the asset they're using. Just as the East Coast operator used to hire HST power cars from EMT, or (as currently) Colas hire locos from Heavy Haul. There's plenty of other examples...

I don't think it will be possible for as long as ROSCOs remain existent.

Is this another groundless ROSCO-bashing exercise I detect? Because it is very clear that the ROSCOs haven't been and aren't a block on such agreements.

 

[JonathanH]

I don't think it will be possible for as long as ROSCOs remain existent.

I don't think it has anything to do with ROSCOs. The reality is that train drivers don't have traction and route knowledge as broad as they once did.

I'm not exactly sure what people are wanting to recreate. Is it the novelty that an unusual piece of rolling stock works a different route once a day? In terms of "NSE to Birmingham", both Chiltern and LNR operate through services on the routes that we are talking about having run in the 1990s.

 

[nw1]

I don't think it has anything to do with ROSCOs. The reality is that train drivers don't have traction and route knowledge as broad as they once did.

I'm not exactly sure what people are wanting to recreate. Is it the novelty that an unusual piece of rolling stock works a different route once a day? In terms of "NSE to Birmingham", both Chiltern and LNR operate through services on the routes that we are talking about having run in the 1990s.

A less bureaucratic and restrictive system, whereby a sector/division/region can borrow another's stock where that's the most convenient thing to do.

I agree that 321s in Stafford must have been quite novel, but that's not my main reason for appreciating the former setup. If using that 321 meant one less unit required for Regional Railways West Midlands (or whatever the sub-sector was called), isn't that good?

Just seems so much more flexible to me than the constrained system we have nowadays. As I've said before, my issue with the current railway is its fragmented nature much more so than whether it's in public or private ownership.

 

[JonathanH]

If using that 321 meant one less unit required for Regional Railways West Midlands (or whatever the sub-sector was called), isn't that good?

Yes, but these things still happen. GWR send a class 150 to Axminster each weekday evening. XC run a Nottingham to Bournemouth service, while Avanti run a Manchester to Birmingham service every morning. LNER add capacity at a key time between Inverness, Aberdeen and Edinburgh. Where it makes sense it still happens. LNR get units back to Northampton from Birmingham off Liverpool workings.

What I admit we don't see is the railway running a GWR class 165 from Reading to Birmingham when a CrossCountry train fails, but do we actually expect that to happen, when the next scheduled train is 30 minutes later?

I wrote before of my youthful disappointment that Intercity didn't hire two NSE 165s to run London to Penzance Summer Saturday reliefs as they had done in the days of locomotive hauled stock, but the reality was that that came to an end in British Rail days, not in the privatisation era. As it is, GWR will occasionally roster a 'west" unit to cover for a failed IET when they have one spare.

 

[Sprinter107]

Whilst its always good to have a bit of novelty, thats not my prime concern, which is providing a train for the fare paying passenger in the event that the usual train isn't available.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

Think it was Coventry, Birmingham International, Birmingham New Street only, i remember the stopper being Coventry - Wolverhampton via New Street, it was quite weird seeing 321s in NSE livery well outside the NSE area.

Correct.