Network Railcard not valid before 10am

[47421]

The Network Railcard Web site states that it is not valid before 10am Monday to Friday. There is no mention of 04:29, whereas the 2 Together site does specifically say it is not valid 0429-0929 and 16-25 site states the minimum fare applies to journeys starting 0430-1000

Is the case therefore that network card discounted tics are not valid midnight to 10am on weekdays?

 

[yorkie]

0000 to 0429 is a time when many discounts and fares are valid if the ticket is dated for the previous day.

 

[Haywain]

0429 only applies as being the end of the previous day's service. The Two Together railcard can be used for a journey starting before 0429 and continuing beyond that time, such as sleeper services. The Network Railcard can not be used at all between 0429 and 1000, except where easements apply.

 

[47421]

Why does the Web site not say the restriction starts at 0430?

Is a Colchester - London Terminals off peak day return with network card OK on next mornings 0018 ex LivSt?

What if u turn up at LivSt at midnight with no tic and network card and want to go to Colchester. Is fare full price anytime single, no network card disc?

 

[maniacmartin]

Amending

 

[yorkie]

What if u turn up at LivSt at midnight with no tic and network card and want to go to Colchester. Is fare full price anytime single, no network card disc?

You want the 0046 train?

Buy the ticket by 2359 and it's the Super Off Peak with Railcard discount (providing the ticket is dated for the current date at that time and not the next day). Buy it at 0001 and it's the Anytime with no discount (you cannot buy a ticket dated for the previous day).

Welcome to the world of railway ticket pricing

 

[47421]

What about if u turn up at LivSt at 2330 to buy single for 2348 to Colchester? Super off peak single with network card disc £16.05? Usually a railcard time or min fare restriction wins to invalidate an otherwise valid tic, in which case network card tic not valid on 2348 as journey continues after midnight?

 

[Haywain]

Why does the Web site not say the restriction starts at 0430?

Because that is not the case. The railcard is not valid before 1000. That means that it is not valid on a journey before 0430 that is not a continuation of the previous day's service.

Is a Colchester - London Terminals off peak day return with network card OK on next mornings 0018 ex LivSt?

Yes, because it is a continuation of the previous day's service.

What if u turn up at LivSt at midnight with no tic and network card and want to go to Colchester. Is fare full price anytime single, no network card disc?

It will be a full price ticket, although the ticket type will depend on the specific wording of thew restrictions.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Usually a railcard time or min fare restriction wins to invalidate an otherwise valid tic, in which case network card tic not valid on 2348 as journey continues after midnight?

The ticket is valid because the railway day runs from midnight past midnight to 0429 - it is 28 hours 29 minutes long. For example, the 1st of the month includes 0001 to 0429 on the 2nd, but only for tickets dated for the 1st.

 

[maniacmartin]

Yes, because it is a continuation of the previous day's service.

I think this is a bit misleading. Say there was a line that has hourly services every hour from 4 am until 1 am. By most people's reasoning, the 4am service is not part of the previous day's service, however under many ticket restriction codes, it would be valid on a ticket dated the previous day.

This reminds me of my 2013 thread Travelcards in early hours on LU. The London Underground day is only 24 hours long, and rolls over around 2am or 2:30 am (I forgot which), so there is some confusion with using tickets there in the early hours of the morning

 

[47421]

OK seems very odd that 16-25, Two Tog benefit from usual discs midnight - 0429 but network railcard does not.

If the rule is actually not valid before 10am other than when travelling on a tic dated a previous date and valid until 0429 in which case valid until 0429, then surely the network card conditions should say that?

 

[Haywain]

I think this is a bit misleading. Say there was a line that has hourly services every hour from 4 am until 1 am. By most people's reasoning, the 4am service is not part of the previous day's service, however under many ticket restriction codes, it would be valid on a ticket dated the previous day.

The 0400 service on a Tuesday morning is both a Tuesday morning service and a Monday night service for tickets dated for travel on the Monday. It is, usually, an Off Peak service with Monday's tickets but may not be with Tuesday's tickets.

OK seems very odd that 16-25, Two Tog benefit from usual discs midnight - 0429 but network railcard does not.

If the rule is actually not valid before 10am other than when travelling on a tic dated a previous date and valid until 0429 in which case valid until 0429, then surely the network card conditions should say that?

The 16-25 Railcard does not have any overall time restrictions, but in the Network Railcard area a minimum fare applies on weekdays. In that case there is no reason for times to be mentioned. The Two Together Railcard is a new product and it is possible that the restrictions may get tweaked over time, but they were clearly designed to allow discounted travel on overnight sleeper services.

 

[Tetchytyke]

OK seems very odd that 16-25, Two Tog benefit from usual discs midnight - 0429 but network railcard does not.

If the rule is actually not valid before 10am other than when travelling on a tic dated a previous date and valid until 0429 in which case valid until 0429, then surely the network card conditions should say that?

The 16-25 railcard does not have time restrictions, although a minimum fare applies before 10am.

The Two Together railcard has slightly different restrictions to enable a passenger to complete their journey having travelled on a Sleeper service. There are no Sleeper services in the Network Railcard area.

 

[47421]

I understand that the 1625 RC has no time restrictions but my point is that the £12 0429-1000 minimum fare rule overrules otherwise applicable time restrictions to invalidate tics less than £12.

In the case of the network card the not valid before 10am rule does not overrule the usual rule about previous days tics being valid until 0429.

Personally I think the network card site should state the circumstances in which network card tics are valid until 0429, but that is just my view.

 

[Deerfold]

This reminds me of my 2013 thread Travelcards in early hours on LU. The London Underground day is only 24 hours long, and rolls over around 2am or 2:30 am (I forgot which), so there is some confusion with using tickets there in the early hours of the morning

No. The London Underground day also runs from 0001 to 0430 the next day. 0001 to 0430 is only offpeak on a ticket dated the previous day unless it's Saturday, Sunday or a Bank Holiday.

 

[bb21]

I understand that the 1625 RC has no time restrictions but my point is that the £12 0429-1000 minimum fare rule overrules otherwise applicable time restrictions to invalidate tics less than £12.

In the case of the network card the not valid before 10am rule does not overrule the usual rule about previous days tics being valid until 0429.

Personally I think the network card site should state the circumstances in which network card tics are valid until 0429, but that is just my view.

What do you mean?

The 16-25 Railcard has no applicable minimum fare is used at, for example, 0200 on a ticket dated the previous day, but the minimum fare applies for tickets dated the current day. The minimum fare runs from 0001 to 1000 for tickets dated the current day.

A Network Railcard-discounted ticket overrules validity before 1000. There is no difference.

 

[47421]

The 1625 min fare and 2Tog restns both start at 0430, so same day using my example of a post midnight single liv st to Colchester for the 0018 departure, those RCs give a discount, network does not

On the which rule wins point, an otherwise valid tic eg anytime is made invalid if discounted fare is less than £12 if 1625 RC used and journey starts 0430/10 or if 2Tog used and journey starts 0430/0930. So for example Burnley to Bradford anytime return with 1625 or 2Tog RC disc £11.50, is not valid anytime, it is subject to the RC time restrictions.

By contrast the midnight to 10 rule with a network card does not render a tic usually valid until 0429 invalid if commence journey after midnight and complete b4 0429. In this case the railcard time restriction does not overrule the ticket time validity. So for example an anytime or off peak return Colchester to LivSt with network card disc remains valid until 0429 despite the RC time restn.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In my examples in each case I am thinking of the restrictions that apply on the return leg

 

[bb21]

No, the 16-25 minimum fare starts at 0001, not 0430. Tickets dated for the previous day are not affected. 16-25 Railcard will give a discount on the fare before 1000 between London and Colchester (eg. on the 0018 for tickets dated the same day) because the discounted fare is over the minimum fare, not because the minimum fare does not apply. If another passenger wishes to travel to Stratford using the same train and buys a ticket dated the same day, there would be no 16-25 Railcard discount available as the fare is less than the minimum fare anyway.

Two Together Railcards have different terms specifically setting out that restrictions apply between 0430 and 0929.

None of the three Railcards mentioned affect the validity of an otherwise valid ticket on the second day of validity between 0001 and 0430 (due to minimum fare or time restrictions), assuming "Day" tickets, as period tickets are a little more complex than that.