Network Railcard - Minimum Fare discrepancy?

spark001uk · 11 Feb 2011

Can anyone shed any light on this: i purchased a thames branches day ranger today, at Reading. The full fare is £15.50, but i have a network railcard. Now, i'm fully aware of the £13 minimum fare mon-fri applying to ALL journeys - in fact i even bought a full adult ticket to get me to Reading as this was cheaper than the minimum network railcard fare.
Anyway, the ticket clerk punched in network railcard, and the fare came up as £10.20!

So, a discrepancy? Can't be clerk error surely, as the ticket machine wouldn't have shown it if it wasn't correct?

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yorkie · 11 Feb 2011

Does the minimum fare apply to Rangers?

spark001uk · 11 Feb 2011

I don't know, all i know is on the official railcard.co.uk site it says ALL journeys?

MikeWh · 11 Feb 2011

According to this page there are no network card disounts.

dzug2 · 11 Feb 2011

The description of it on the National Rail site under fares says 34% off for a network card and some others and doesn't mention a minimum fare - but under railcards says no railcard discounts.

So pass
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

MikeWh said:
According to this page there are no network card disounts.

Depends where you look on that link - it's contradictory

spark001uk · 11 Feb 2011

Yes that's what i noticed on the NR site - two contradicting statements on the same web page! Good old National Rail, clear as ever!

However, from what i learned of the railway's ticketing machines since many years ago is: if it's not valid, the computer says no!!

yorkie · 11 Feb 2011

Put it down on the list of useful tickets then!

But bear in mind minimum fare rules can be confusing and odd, e.g. for 16-25 railcards there is no minimum fare during July or August, or on Advance tickets at any time, or Bank Holidays. On days and ticket types when the minimum fare does apply, there is no minimum fare after 10am. This ensures that the system is "simple" so you can "buy with confidence".

In line with this simple policy, Family Railcard and Senior railcards cannot be used at all for journeys wholly within the 'Network area' at times when the off peak fare for the journey being made is not valid.

So, for a journey at 7am from, say, Brighton to Huntingdon, a Y-P holder is fine, but a Senior holder isn't. Extend it to Peterborough and they're both fine. But if the journey was only to Haywards Heath then the Y-P holder is screwed. This system ensures everyone knows "exactly where you stand".

For Rovers & Rangers it can vary a lot, with some even giving no discount at all.

(Quotes courtesy of the lovely people at ATOC, at least one of whom would prefer you to buy a CD than travel by train off peak).

barrykas · 12 Feb 2011

The relevant page in "The Manual" gives a fixed discounted price for the Thames Branches Day Ranger of £10.20 for Senior, 16-25, Disabled, HM Forces and Network Railcard holders.

The usual list of trains between Paddington and Reading are barred in the evening peak.

Cheers,

Barry

spark001uk · 13 Feb 2011

barrykas said:
The usual list of trains between Paddington and Reading are barred in the evening peak.

Yes, i nearly got caught out by that, i was meant to get into padd at 1532 for the 1545 out, but a signal (part of the recent control transfer i might add) just outside twyford decided to fail and drop a red right in front of our driver! 100 - 0 in about 20sec! Thankfully i was allowed on the 1600 due to the delay.

RJ · 14 Feb 2011

The fare comes up as £10.20 in my TIS, even if a weekday is selected.

spark001uk · 14 Feb 2011

So, it's settled then, the "no exception" £13 min fare for "ALL" journeys Mon-Fri actually does have an exception?

yorkie · 15 Feb 2011

spark001uk said:
So, it's settled then, the "no exception" £13 min fare for "ALL" journeys Mon-Fri actually does have an exception?

Isn't it similar to the pre-10am YNG discount, in that it only applies to walk-on singles/returns? Advance fares do not have a minimum fare for YNG railcards before 10am and I just did a search for some Southern Advance fares on weekdays with a Network railcard and it gave the discount, on fares costing a lot less than £12.

AFAIK tickets that are NOT walk on single/returns (ie, rangers/rovers/advance) do not have minimum fares.

Paul Kelly · 15 Feb 2011

Good point - the list of ticket types that have minimum fares and the actual minimum fares are specific to each railcard type - see the list below from NFM08. Interestingly the times and dates that the minimum fares apply is not in the fares database - determining that seems to be left as an exercise to the designer of the ticket issuing system (or the clerk)!

I note that there are a few advance fares that the Network Railcard does have a minimum fare for (2AA, 2BA etc.) but a quick browse through the NFM show that they might only be used by Wrexham & Shropshire, so irrelevant now.

Code:

FAM FAMILY & FRIENDS RCD
	ADT  ANYTIME DAY TC   £14.80
	ODT OFF-PEAK TCDSTD    £5.00
DIC DISABLED CHILD
	ADT  ANYTIME DAY TC   £14.80
	FDT ANYTIME DAY 1TC   £14.80
	ODT OFF-PEAK TCDSTD    £5.00
DIS DISABLED ADULT
	ADT  ANYTIME DAY TC   £14.80
	FDT ANYTIME DAY 1TC   £14.80
	ODT OFF-PEAK TCDSTD    £5.00
IRD INTERRAIL CARD (70)
	CDR  OFF-PEAK DAY R   £14.00
	CDS  OFF-PEAK DAY S    £7.00
	ELR EURO LOWSAVER R   £14.00
	ELS EURO LOWSAVER S    £7.00
	EOR EURO STD RETURN   £14.00
	EOS EURO STD SINGLE    £7.00
	EVR EURO HIGH SVR R   £14.00
	EVS EURO HIGH SVR S    £7.00
	NAR NETWORK AWAYBRK   £14.00
	SDR   ANYTIME DAY R   £14.00
	SDS   ANYTIME DAY S    £7.00
	SOR       ANYTIME R   £14.00
	SOS       ANYTIME S    £7.00
	SSR SUPER OFFPEAK R   £14.00
	SSS SUPER OFFPEAK S    £7.00
	SVR      OFF-PEAK R   £14.00
	SVS      OFF-PEAK S    £7.00
HMF RAILCARD
	ADT  ANYTIME DAY TC   £14.80
	BVR      OFF-PEAK R   £12.00
	CDR  OFF-PEAK DAY R   £12.00
	CDS  OFF-PEAK DAY S   £12.00
	EFR EURO 1ST RETURN   £12.00
	EFS EURO 1ST SINGLE   £12.00
	ELR EURO LOWSAVER R   £12.00
	ELS EURO LOWSAVER S   £12.00
	EOS EURO STD SINGLE   £12.00
	EVS EURO HIGH SVR S   £12.00
	FCR OFF-PEAK DAY 1R   £12.00
	FDR  ANYTIME DAY 1R   £12.00
	FDS  ANYTIME DAY 1S   £12.00
	FDT ANYTIME DAY 1TC   £14.80
	FOR      ANYTIME 1R   £12.00
	FOS      ANYTIME 1S   £12.00
	FVR 1ST SUP ADV RTN   £12.00
	GPR ANYTIME DAY RTN   £12.00
	NAR NETWORK AWAYBRK   £12.00
	ODT OFF-PEAK TCDSTD   £12.00
	OTF OFFPEAK TCD 1ST   £12.00
	PDR SUP OFFPK DAY R   £12.00
	PDS SUP OFFPK DAY S   £12.00
	SCO SUP OFFPK DAY R   £12.00
	SDR   ANYTIME DAY R   £12.00
	SDS   ANYTIME DAY S   £12.00
	SFR     OFF-PEAK 1R   £12.00
	SOR       ANYTIME R   £12.00
	SOS       ANYTIME S   £12.00
	SSR SUPER OFFPEAK R   £12.00
	SSS SUPER OFFPEAK S   £12.00
	STO SUP OFFPK DAYTC   £12.00
	SVR      OFF-PEAK R   £12.00
	SVS      OFF-PEAK S   £12.00
	VBR VIRGIN BUSINESS   £12.00
NEW NETWORK RAILCARD
	2AA         ADVANCE   £13.00
	2BA         ADVANCE   £13.00
	2CC         ADVANCE   £13.00
	2DA         ADVANCE   £13.00
	2DC         ADVANCE   £13.00
	2EA         ADVANCE   £13.00
	2EC         ADVANCE   £13.00
	2FC         ADVANCE   £13.00
	2GC         ADVANCE   £13.00
	2HC         ADVANCE   £13.00
	2JC         ADVANCE   £13.00
	ADT  ANYTIME DAY TC   £14.80
	CDR  OFF-PEAK DAY R   £13.00
	CDS  OFF-PEAK DAY S   £13.00
	EOR EURO STD RETURN   £13.00
	EOS EURO STD SINGLE   £13.00
	EVR EURO HIGH SVR R   £13.00
	EVS EURO HIGH SVR S   £13.00
	GPR ANYTIME DAY RTN   £13.00
	NAR NETWORK AWAYBRK   £13.00
	ODT OFF-PEAK TCDSTD   £13.00
	OPD SUP OFFPK DAY S   £13.00
	OPR SUPER OFFPEAK R   £13.00
	OPS SUPER OFFPEAK S   £13.00
	PDR SUP OFFPK DAY R   £13.00
	PDS SUP OFFPK DAY S   £13.00
	SCO SUP OFFPK DAY R   £13.00
	SDR   ANYTIME DAY R   £13.00
	SDS   ANYTIME DAY S   £13.00
	SOR       ANYTIME R   £13.00
	SOS       ANYTIME S   £13.00
	SRR SUPER OFFPK DAY   £13.00
	STO SUP OFFPK DAYTC   £13.00
	SVR      OFF-PEAK R   £13.00
	SVS      OFF-PEAK S   £13.00
	SWS SUPER OFFPK DAY   £13.00
	WRE SUP OFFPK DAYTC   £13.00
NGC NETWORK GOLD CARD
	ADT  ANYTIME DAY TC   £14.80
	ODT OFF-PEAK TCDSTD    £4.80
SRN SENIOR RAILCARD
	ADT  ANYTIME DAY TC   £14.80
	FDT ANYTIME DAY 1TC   £14.80
	ODT OFF-PEAK TCDSTD    £5.00
SRY SCOTTISH YOUTH RCD
	SDR   ANYTIME DAY R   £16.00
	SDS   ANYTIME DAY S    £8.00
	SOR       ANYTIME R   £16.00
	SOS       ANYTIME S    £8.00
	VA1         ADVANCE    £8.00
	VA2         ADVANCE    £8.00
YNG 16-25 RAILCARD
	1DR  OFF-PEAK DAY R   £12.00
	1DT OFF-PEAK TCDSTD   £12.00
	ADT  ANYTIME DAY TC   £14.80
	BVR      OFF-PEAK R   £12.00
	BVS      OFF-PEAK S   £12.00
	CBA SUP OFFPK DAY R   £12.00
	CDR  OFF-PEAK DAY R   £12.00
	CDS  OFF-PEAK DAY S   £12.00
	EGF SUP OFFPK DAY R   £12.00
	ELR EURO LOWSAVER R   £12.00
	ELS EURO LOWSAVER S   £12.00
	EOR EURO STD RETURN   £12.00
	EVR EURO HIGH SVR R   £12.00
	EVS EURO HIGH SVR S   £12.00
	GDR  OFF-PEAK DAY R   £12.00
	GDS  OFF-PEAK DAY S   £12.00
	GOR  ANYTIME RETURN   £12.00
	GPR ANYTIME DAY RTN   £12.00
	GTR       ANYTIME R   £12.00
	GTS       ANYTIME S   £12.00
	ODT OFF-PEAK TCDSTD   £12.00
	OPD SUP OFFPK DAY S   £12.00
	OPR SUPER OFFPEAK R   £12.00
	OPS SUPER OFFPEAK S   £12.00
	PDR SUP OFFPK DAY R   £12.00
	PDS SUP OFFPK DAY S   £12.00
	SCO SUP OFFPK DAY R   £12.00
	SDR   ANYTIME DAY R   £12.00
	SDS   ANYTIME DAY S   £12.00
	SOP SUPER OFFPEAK R   £12.00
	SOR       ANYTIME R   £12.00
	SOS       ANYTIME S   £12.00
	SSR SUPER OFFPEAK R   £12.00
	SSS SUPER OFFPEAK S   £12.00
	STO SUP OFFPK DAYTC   £12.00
	SVH      OFF-PEAK S   £12.00
	SVR      OFF-PEAK R   £12.00
	SVS      OFF-PEAK S   £12.00
	VBR VIRGIN BUSINESS   £12.00
	WKR   THE WEEKENDER   £12.00
	WRE SUP OFFPK DAYTC   £12.00

portico · 18 Feb 2011

barrykas said:
The usual list of trains between Paddington and Reading are barred in the evening peak.

Just came across this thread by googling because I was surprised to find a discount on the Thames Branches Day Ranger pop up on the National Rail journey planner. (Although I don't seem to be able to buy this ticket on any of the sites I've tried so far!)

But I was also surprised to see that the possible return train times from Paddington to Reading are *different* - e.g. the National Rail
site tells me that with a TBDR I can get the 16.49, but the TrainLine site says that with a normal offpeak day return (doesn't offer the Ranger) I can get the 17.06 but doesn't offer me the 16.49. As far as I have checked, the accepted trains are at different times throughout.

Anyone taken advantage of this, or had any trouble due to it?

spark001uk · 19 Feb 2011

To be honest i've done dozens of HSTs Reading <-> Padd and not once have tickets been checked on route! But that's not to say whether or not you'd get through any ticket barriers in your way!

tannedfrog · 20 Feb 2011

For a customer wanting a reading - london off peak day return, is there ever any disadvantage in buying the slightly cheaper rover?

If not shouldnt ticket offices be recommending it?

barrykas · 20 Feb 2011

tannedfrog said:
For a customer wanting a reading - london off peak day return, is there ever any disadvantage in buying the slightly cheaper rover?

If not shouldnt ticket offices be recommending it?

I'm guessing FGW forgot to increase the price with the January fares change, as NFM07 shows the Reading to London CDR as being £15.00 (i.e. 50p cheaper than the Ranger).

As for Ticket Offices recommending it, two problems present themselves:

They have to know the ticket exists, and that it's (currently) cheaper than the CDR
People have been known to complain to Customer Services that they've been sold the "wrong" ticket for their journey (even though it's cheaper!), which results in Ticket Office staff being told not to sell that ticket for the journey in question. (BTDTGTTS)

Cheers,

Barry

jkdd77 · 20 Feb 2011

barrykas said:
I'm guessing FGW forgot to increase the price with the January fares change, as NFM07 shows the Reading to London CDR as being £15.00 (i.e. 50p cheaper than the Ranger).

As for Ticket Offices recommending it, two problems present themselves:

They have to know the ticket exists, and that it's (currently) cheaper than the CDR

People have been known to complain to Customer Services that they've been sold the "wrong" ticket for their journey (even though it's cheaper!), which results in Ticket Office staff being told not to sell that ticket for the journey in question. (BTDTGTTS)

Cheers,

Barry

Wouldn't the CDR, unlike the Day Ranger, also be valid via Staines to Waterloo?

Greenback · 20 Feb 2011

Yes, a Reading - London CDR has always been valid via both routes.

radamfi · 20 Feb 2011

What about online discounts (for example on Southern site) where the online discount pushes the fare under £13?

Network Railcard - Minimum Fare discrepancy?

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