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Network Rail to sell major stations?

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Tio Terry

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There are some Operational issues to consider. Most major stations use the PA system as an evacuation alarm system so if private developers are allowed to carry out any form of building alterations they would need to ensure they still met the required standards for audibility of announcements. This is governed by an EU Technical Standard for Interoperability (TSI) which most commercial company's will have no idea of. Similarly provisions for Persons of Reduced Mobility within stations is governed by a TSI.
Fire alarms for premises within a station have to be suitably designed and integrated to ensure un-necessary evacuation alarms are not invoked. Security systems are designed to a much more rigorous level for stations than "ordinary" shopping centres because they are seen as greater terrorist targets.
There's also the question of footfall and adequate provision for entry/exit facilities especially in times of disruption. Waterloo removed the Concourse retail outlets when it was realised that these hampered passenger movement when services were disrupted.
All of these issues are managed automatically by competent Network Rail employees who understand the need for railway specific needs. I seriously doubt that commercial property management company's will know about, understand or want to apply these requirements when they are totally and completely focused on income and profit.
 
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yorksrob

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As you keep saying and I have also agreed with. Network Rail is unnecessarily large and this brings with it problems, downsizing by getting rid of irrelevant operations is a good thing.
.

As long as the operation brings in more money than it costs (which I guarantee it will do) then it is entirely relevant to Network Rail.

Network Rail is large because it necessarily runs the majority of the rail network. However, I've yet to see any convincing evidence that the situation will be improved by selling off a profitable bit or breaking it up.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Do you want electrification?
NR has (or will) break its funding limit for CP5.
HMG has given them some limited extra funding but the rest has to realised by selling assets - as in any business.
The alternative is to slash the CP5 project list until NR can afford it.
That, by the way, is the new rule now it is designated as a public body.
The old ("private") NR borrowed way beyond its limit, all guaranteed by HMG.
As Peter Hendy has put it: "The alcohol store in the brewery has been locked, so we'd better sober up".

Frankly it wouldn't be a bad thing for Network Rail to undertake some electrification projects on a rolling basis and trying to keep a sustainable income stream, rather than trying to splurge on everything at the same time. This is what should have been happening for the last fifteen years. The midland mainline has perfectly good rolling stock for a few years. It can wait to re-use the kit and expertise from previous projects for example.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
- Punctuality in some areas is good and is within targets.
- Did I say they weren't?
- And?
- Electrification is just a small element of what they are doing.

I suggest that you remember that there is a lot more to the country than London, since you seem to have a totally London-centric attitude to this!

Indeed. Network Rail runs thousands of trains every day in the face of the largest number of trains for decades and challenging climactic conditions mostly without incident.

The idea that Network Rail is somehow 'in meltdown' is hysterical in the extreme.
 

Railsigns

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Bald Rick

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As someone who has managed teams that managed a couple of major stations, I feel a couple of facts may be necessary.

The people who manage the stations are not responsible for managing the tenants (retailers), this is all done by a team of retail experts, most of whom have come from airports, shopping centres etc. They all work in one team, and that sits in the Property department, entirely removed from network operations.

The station management team are responsible for the safety of everyone on the premises, and the safety of the premises itself. In this respect there is no distinction between passengers and retail customers. Of course, many people are both.

The people who operate and maintain the railway, all the way up the management chain, have very little to do with the retail side of the business, and not much more to do with the station management team. The only contact is for contingency planning and passenger / service management at times of disruption, planned or unplanned.

Perhaps the most disappointing facet of the proposed sale is that it potentially (depending on what is actually sold) removes the last significant chunk of Network Rail staff who have daily contact with the people who pay their wages, i.e. the travelling public.
 
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HowardGWR

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You are wrong to claim that Network Rail has £50 billion of debt. It's estimated that it may rise to £50 billion by the year 2020.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/network-rail-earmarks-18-major-stations-for-privatisation-in-bid-to-tackle-debt-a6886551.html

If one looks at the Balance Sheet, it becomes evident that what some people call the Debt, is in fact the Capital. One does not say that Shell or M and S has a huge debt, just because the shareholders have shares and would be owed the money in the event of a wind up..

Here's the link.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Annual_report_archive.aspx

Page 91 gives the figures as the 'pure railway' being worth £56 billion, the basis for valuation being what it is considered a third party would pay for it.
The borrowings ('the Debt' quoted by newspapers) are £35 billion. The differences after odds and sods (actually very large amounts on both sides of the balance sheet, such as financial speculation that should be brought to a halt) shews that we as taxpayers are sitting on a very valuable asset.

I always thought the sell-off of the hotels was daft, and I think that about the station assets. perhaps they could be just franchised, why not?
 

gimmea50anyday

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Just to throw a spanner into the arguements.....

Nearly all of the shops in the vast majority of the stations are franchises (this includes, M&S Food, KFC, Burger King, WH Smiths, Tie Rack and most of the coffee chains etc) are operated almost exclusively by SSP (select service partners) so apart from rent, i cannot see what income NR is gaining when they dont own SSP
 

Elecman

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If Network Rail was so incompetent at running its Major Station retail portfolio how come it is performing better than the high street operated by the lines of the retail specialists?.
 

Kettledrum

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...atisation-in-bid-to-tackle-debt-a6886551.html



A couple of minor factual errors, the picture captioned as St Pancras is actually Waterloo, and St Pancras is owned by HS1 Ltd, not just run by them. In fact, it is managed for them by Network Rail.

Surprised to see Birmingham New Street mentioned. Network Rail may own the "station" - i.e. the platform and the tracks but not the shopping centre above it. See:


http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/grand-central-shopping-centre-sold-10772054
 

HowardGWR

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Yes, I think the issue is only idealogical and not based on anything else.
 

Lurpi

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Well this thread has exploded in the last 24 hours, mainly due to ranting, but in arguing over whether NR should or should not run the stations, an important point seems to have been overlooked.

As I mentioned a few pages back, the revenue NR makes from retail is not a significant proportion of its overall revenue. But what will change drastically is that the number of interfaces it has to manage will go up.

NR can do what it likes in the stations it manages. It can close off areas, evict tenants, reconfigure the layout, introduce emergency measures like it did at London Bridge. It doesn't need to wait, consult, or pay millions of pounds in compensation to do this.

That will change. It will be dealing with private consortia who will (if, as I say, the point of this is to raise a significant amount of capital to pay those £1.8 billion of added CP5 costs) have invested serious money and will prioritise protecting their investment above all else.

What you will therefore have is an interface between two parties with quite different priorities: a not for profit state owned company and a for-profit station operating company, which is owned and equity financed by various for-profit companies (and also debt financed by various lenders).

When something goers wrong, NR's priority (however poorly executed at times) is to keep the trains running. The station operator's will be to ensure that they don't suffer financial detriment (I don't mean wiping out their profits for the year, I just mean losing some cash flow that they'd otherwise have had). That may lead to them pulling in different, or opposite, directions. You will recall that Railtrack faced this dilemma: as its chief executive Gerald Corbett admitted, from time to time they refused to act in the best interests of the railway, because they didn't want to lose money in the process.

Also, because the agreements to buy/concession these stations and operate them will be governed by legally binding contracts, the scope for common sense solutions and negotiation between NR and the station operators will be limited. Each side could end up talking through their lawyers, which is very expensive and slow. That goes back to the increased overheads I mentioned, which will be passed back to the taxpayer or farepayer.

We don't know whether these deals will be largely property-focused and result in just the retail areas being taken over, or whether they'll cover the entire stations. But if it's the latter, then this will be about much more than some property developers renting out shop space. They will be running the railway, or a part of it, and they'll expect to be protected from all the risks that come with that by being paid guaranteed fees for doing so, on top of the retail revenue. They may be arrangements to share retail revenue with NR, possibly, but of course the less profitable the assets on offer, the less money in upfront sale/concession fees NR gets - and it is probably trying to raise as much money as possible.

If one looks at the Balance Sheet, it becomes evident that what some people call the Debt, is in fact the Capital. One does not say that Shell or M and S has a huge debt, just because the shareholders have shares and would be owed the money in the event of a wind up..

Here's the link.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Annual_report_archive.aspx

Page 91 gives the figures as the 'pure railway' being worth £56 billion, the basis for valuation being what it is considered a third party would pay for it.
The borrowings ('the Debt' quoted by newspapers) are £35 billion. The differences after odds and sods (actually very large amounts on both sides of the balance sheet, such as financial speculation that should be brought to a halt) shews that we as taxpayers are sitting on a very valuable asset.

I always thought the sell-off of the hotels was daft, and I think that about the station assets. perhaps they could be just franchised, why not?

You appear to be confusing debt and equity. What shareholders have is equity, and in the event of a wind-up they would only get what was left after the debt holders had been paid off, which depending on the liquidated value of assets (which is less than the book value) vs the debt might not be much. Yes, NR does have debt, debt is one form of capital and equity is the other. And yes, you do talk about Shell or M&S having a huge debt if investors decide they've borrowed too much. Financial analysts are always accusing this or that company of having too much debt!

Comparing debt to how much shares are worth doesn't mean much in terms of a company's sustainability, because share prices don't pay the bills. in fact they don't pay anyone except those who sell them on. NR of course has no shares. What matters is the earnings potential (which is not the same as revenue, you have to strip out operating costs and various other things first).

Of course NR's assets are worth more than its debt - but that's not the point, nobody is talking about liquidating its assets and the UK railway will never, ever bring in enough money to cover all its costs. The point is, is the debt sustainable i.e. can you afford to keep paying the interest? You could argue that it is as long as government is happy for it to keep growing and for the debt repayments to grow with it. But I suspect at some point someone will say enough. In which case you can look at other ways of financing the railway like the asset charging model used by Chiltern Railways to finance their Evergreen projects. It comes down to accounting, ultimately, and whether politicians want to see a railway supported by public borrowing.
 
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infobleep

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The first thing that springs to mind for me is the airport experience, where every effort is made to divert the passenger from the primary function of getting from A to B and instead spending a little bit more dough (well usually a lot more). At some departure gates this can mean being passed through retail units on your way to the gates. Fine if you’ve got 2 – 3 hours to pass, not so great if you are late for a boarding.

Selling off stations means that the new owners might seek to maximise the floor space and cram in ever growing numbers of retail units, at the expense of waiting areas, ticket office or flows to ticket barriers / platforms. And whilst it is understandable that companies would want to make as much profit as possible, I fear that it will be passengers that would be inconvenienced. Many stations still have large areas that might be viewed as under utilised by new owners, but are vital for passengers waiting for confirmation of platforms, waiting for a disembarking passenger, or simply to allow flows of passengers move through the station.
I would hate more inconvenience. I mean try getting to the subway entrance from platform 11 at Waterloo. Someone at Network Rail decided it would be OK to pit a large building in the way so you have to walk round it. Great during peak rush hour when all the commuters are trying to get up and down.

More of that would be awful. They could have built a separate subway entrance on platform 11 or simply not bothered with the building.

They dressed up with changes across Waterloo as creating more space for passengers. Well perhaps they did elsewhwre. They certainly didn't here.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Their purpose is to safely and efficiently run the railways. The money raised can be added to the pot for fixing the railway, something they're experts in doing.

Business knowledge. I don't believe for a second that a railway operator could operate retail units better than a business specialising in retail. It's simply not relevant or natural to them.

The significant money raised from the sell-off.

So do you think the Dell off money won't run out due to the way it's sold?

If you don't believe Network Rail could operate retail units better than companies like Westfield, do you think Westfield could run the stations better than Network Rail, given they have no expertise in selling tickets, dispatching trains and many of the other functions that operate at a railway station bar retail concessions?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If they have sell the station would NR have to pay access rights to use the infrastructure to the property owner? If they own the whole building what's to stop them demolishing it and building flats (especially in London)
Planning laws would stop them. End of.
 

LateThanNever

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Well this thread has exploded in the last 24 hours, mainly due to ranting, but in arguing over whether NR should or should not run the stations, an important point seems to have been overlooked.

As I mentioned a few pages back, the revenue NR makes from retail is not a significant proportion of its overall revenue. But what will change drastically is that the number of interfaces it has to manage will go up.

NR can do what it likes in the stations it manages. It can close off areas, evict tenants, reconfigure the layout, introduce emergency measures like it did at London Bridge. It doesn't need to wait, consult, or pay millions of pounds in compensation to do this.

That will change. It will be dealing with private consortia who will (if, as I say, the point of this is to raise a significant amount of capital to pay those £1.8 billion of added CP5 costs) have invested serious money and will prioritise protecting their investment above all else.

What you will therefore have is an interface between two parties with quite different priorities: a not for profit state owned company and a for-profit station operating company, which is owned and equity financed by various for-profit companies (and also debt financed by various lenders).

When something goers wrong, NR's priority (however poorly executed at times) is to keep the trains running. The station operator's will be to ensure that they don't suffer financial detriment (I don't mean wiping out their profits for the year, I just mean losing some cash flow that they'd otherwise have had). That may lead to them pulling in different, or opposite, directions. You will recall that Railtrack faced this dilemma: as its chief executive Gerald Corbett admitted, from time to time they refused to act in the best interests of the railway, because they didn't want to lose money in the process.

Also, because the agreements to buy/concession these stations and operate them will be governed by legally binding contracts, the scope for common sense solutions and negotiation between NR and the station operators will be limited. Each side could end up talking through their lawyers, which is very expensive and slow. That goes back to the increased overheads I mentioned, which will be passed back to the taxpayer or farepayer.

We don't know whether these deals will be largely property-focused and result in just the retail areas being taken over, or whether they'll cover the entire stations. But if it's the latter, then this will be about much more than some property developers renting out shop space. They will be running the railway, or a part of it, and they'll expect to be protected from all the risks that come with that by being paid guaranteed fees for doing so, on top of the retail revenue. They may be arrangements to share retail revenue with NR, possibly, but of course the less profitable the assets on offer, the less money in upfront sale/concession fees NR gets - and it is probably trying to raise as much money as possible.



You appear to be confusing debt and equity. What shareholders have is equity, and in the event of a wind-up they would only get what was left after the debt holders had been paid off, which depending on the liquidated value of assets (which is less than the book value) vs the debt might not be much. Yes, NR does have debt, debt is one form of capital and equity is the other. And yes, you do talk about Shell or M&S having a huge debt if investors decide they've borrowed too much. Financial analysts are always accusing this or that company of having too much debt!

Comparing debt to how much shares are worth doesn't mean much in terms of a company's sustainability, because share prices don't pay the bills. in fact they don't pay anyone except those who sell them on. NR of course has no shares. What matters is the earnings potential (which is not the same as revenue, you have to strip out operating costs and various other things first).

Of course NR's assets are worth more than its debt - but that's not the point, nobody is talking about liquidating its assets and the UK railway will never, ever bring in enough money to cover all its costs. The point is, is the debt sustainable i.e. can you afford to keep paying the interest? You could argue that it is as long as government is happy for it to keep growing and for the debt repayments to grow with it. But I suspect at some point someone will say enough. In which case you can look at other ways of financing the railway like the asset charging model used by Chiltern Railways to finance their Evergreen projects. It comes down to accounting, ultimately, and whether politicians want to see a railway supported by public borrowing.
Of course you could also ask can you afford not to pay the interest? But as NR debt is now on the government's books, the government could just 'invest' in new infrastructure, as it has invested in quantitative easing for the banks. And like quantitative easing it would be all at no interest at all. For the government cannot lend itself at interest money which it prints unless it takes the political decision to do so. Interest is just a deception - aka 'corporate welfare'. Most money is still created nominally as debt but both the government and/or the Bank of England and commercial banks all create money out of thin air as this bulletin from the Bank of england explains.
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publ...lletin/2014/qb14q1prereleasemoneycreation.pdf
So this desire to 'reduce government debt' is just a (daft) political choice. The economy would be better for all if the government spent much more freely on new infrastructure. Even if they decide to borrow, perhaps for the sake of pension funds, there's never been a cheaper time to do so!
 

TBirdFrank

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As a former property manager who worked through the Tory years from 1979 to 1994, when the BR portfolio was scalped, then the wasted Blair years until Prescott's shambolic moves brought my career to an end this proposal is simply more of the same - except that the same has gone on for fully sixty years or so and there really is no more fat on the bone.

At privatisation Network Rail in 1994 were left with what they needed to run the network - no more.

The surplus was left with the public sector residuary body (me) to be disposed of to best advantage which we did until 1998 when Prescott hit us with a moratorium - no sales = no revenue to government albeit that rental income was still covering our liability costs for tunnels, viaducts etc, Effectively Prescott destroyed our business. 2001 brought redundancy, and an insight into the difference between the commitment level of consultants v in house staff.

Property management was outsourced to LSH and in the end, a few years ago, final the rump of unsaleable property, tunnels, bridge works etc, was transferred to, of all things, the Highways Agency.

The operational estate that was transferred to Railtrack was also set up for partial outsourcing and LSH took over the station trading portfolio en masse.

To now start to move the "cleared for sale" boundary that was set up at that time to protect infrastructure and operations into and across the operational elements of station concourses and support works is stupidity of the highest order - but what would you expect of Osborne and his cronies as long as their pockets get lined??

Long term potential to modernise and rebuild stations and infrastructure will be made infinitely more difficult and expensive as I can't see financial institutions living with premature termination clauses if they buy, except on phyrric terms - which won't bother short term politicians.

At least with "Railway Surveyors" real qualified chartered surveyors who understood their and the transport business we got results - as our MD used to describe BRPB - "we are a successful property business with a rather unfortunate transport arm" What funded the HST fleet, Liverpool St etc?? And by the way - London and Continental who brought you the revitalised St Pancras was - none other than BR in sheep's clothing - a residuary body subsidiary - not Railtrack and not private sector either.
 
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Llanigraham

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It isn't "yours" or "ours"!!
They belong to Network Rail, but then I don't expect you to understand that!!
 

LateThanNever

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It isn't "yours" or "ours"!!
They belong to Network Rail, but then I don't expect you to understand that!!
But of course Network Rail is owned by we taxpayers. So I've no idea whether that is yours or ours. It is certainly, whether or not you expect me to understand that, government owned. So we either transfer it at a one off cost to neoliberals and/or bankers or we keep the wealth in "our country" as Mr Cameron always calls it, without selling it to the highest bidder.
 

cjmillsnun

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Selling off the property portfolio and especially the juiciest plums, will have no direct impact on running a better railway as this suggestion will free up next to no resources needed to run a railway. Even the savings made in staff reduction will be negligible in the face of the future income lost. It will simply mean there is less money to spend in the future and create an even more complicated interface between interested parties involved in running the system.

Absolutely spot on. All this is is a short term gain for long term pain. The debts will increase again, probably exponentially as the infrastructure needs massive investment due to decades of neglect. Flogging off a part that is trouble free and makes shedloads of money year on year is stupid. It leaves an indebted company with little that is profitable, and as it is a nationalised company, that means a higher tax burden or reduced investment in essential maintenance and renewal.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Because it allows them to focus on running the railways. The clue is in sell off, that will generate a vast sum of money, they're not going giving it away for free.

Don't think Network Rail will see a penny of it. It will go to the Government to pay off their debt.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Planning laws would stop them. End of.

I take it you've read the National Planning Policy Framework?

It's 58 pages long and talks about permitting "sustainable development". But there's no meat on the bones, no real policy. That is done by Local Authorities publishing core strategies. Problem is that most of them are badly written (by consultants) and developers are finding it easier to get around them (normally advised by the very consultants that put the strategies together!). Compare this with the previous documents from central government that set out policies in detail. Yes they were complex, but they offered serious protection that is now lacking. There is a chance that if the parish council is competent they can put together a detailed neighbourhood plan (a good example is Petersfield's) which can set out what development goes where and what is and isn't protected, but that requires serious engagement with the public, time and money. For it to be adopted as planning law requires public support in a referendum, and until they get a draft plan published, the developers only have the core strategy from the district or unitary authority.
 
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WelshBluebird

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I do love how short sighted an awful lot of policy seems to be these days.
"We need to cut debt so lets sell off loads of stuff to make money".
No thought about what happens the next time you are in the same situation but now have nothing of value to sell off!
 

LateThanNever

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I do love how short sighted an awful lot of policy seems to be these days.
"We need to cut debt so lets sell off loads of stuff to make money".
No thought about what happens the next time you are in the same situation but now have nothing of value to sell off!

Particularly as we we don't even need to cut debt indeed it would be better at the moment if we didn't - the government isn't running a household. It's running an economy and controls its own fiat money! Osborne is either stupid and doesn't understand what he's doing which I think unlikely, or he is anxious to ensure a good next job with some smart bank in the City so he is keen to keep in with them. I fear the people of the UK and their assets -including the railways - are just so much collateral damage in his disastrous policies. Somehow we need to ensure we do what we can to cut his benefits and keep the country's.
 

HSTEd

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Noone has explained to me how this will improve Network Rail's finances?
THe interest on NRs debt is so low that the loss of income will be greater than the reduction in interest payments thanks to the reduction in the debt burden.

Which means it is in the governments interest not to sell of anything.
BUt of course Osborne wants to sell off the remaining family silver so he can claim the deficit has dropped for a year. Just like with Royal Mail and Northern Rock's mortgage book.
 

DerekC

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And presumably there will be compensation to pay if NR disrupts the retail operations to make any operational changes to the station or carry out major maintenance to railway assets.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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But of course Network Rail is owned by we taxpayers.

I find it very strange that whilst my property portfolio receives half-yearly updates from my management agents, Network Rail have never once contacted me about my portfolio of their railway property that you say that I have a financial interest in...:roll:

Shall I write to them asking if I am liable for any costs involving the upkeep of my National Rail holdings....or shall I not bother and save myself the cost of a postage stamp....:D
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Noone has explained to me how this will improve Network Rail's finances?

I am aware of three people in senior management positions in British industry with the surname of Noone and I wonder if any of these are the person who made the explanation you state above.

I do share one thing in common with Peter Noone of Herman Hermit's fame which is that we both studied at St Bede's College in Manchester

Incidentally, are you aware that Noone is one of the languages of Cameroon?
 
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LateThanNever

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I find it very strange that whilst my property portfolio receives half-yearly updates from my management agents, Network Rail have never once contacted me about my portfolio of their railway property that you say that I have a financial interest in...:roll:

They do contact you - it's called representative democracy. And though I've never had one, I doubt it works the way your personal property portfolio does.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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The first element of NR's refinancing has been announced - power infrastructure.
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...ure-investors-to-support-railway-upgrade-plan

•Network Rail has embarked upon a comprehensive programme of examining its assets and looking at ways to realise value that will help fund the company’s Railway Upgrade Plan. These include:
•Commercial estate – 7,500 properties
•Freight yards
•Major stations
•Electrical power assets
•Land for housing
•Surplus land
•Telecoms assets
•Depots

Nothing decided yet, but KPMG are going to do "market testing".


http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...ivate-investment-in-power-infrastructure.html

UK: Infrastructure manager Network Rail announced on March 4 that it was looking at options for bringing in private capital and expertise to support the operation, maintenance, renewal, financing and enhancement of its electrical distribution and traction power assets. This will include assessing interest in its electrical assets from global investors and electricity network operators.

KPMG has been appointed as financial advisor and is to test the market for a range of options, from maintaining the status quo to a geographical divestment of some or all of the electrical distribution and traction power assets to a third party. NR said it aims to benchmark its competitiveness against the market, maximise commercial opportunities and attract private capital to help fund investment.

The study supports NR’s programme of examining ways to fund investment by realising the value of assets including property, telecoms, major stations and depots. NR has committed to generating an additional £1·8bn to support investment during the current five year regulatory control period to 2019
 
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