Network Rail - Stop Taking Selfies On Railway Tracks

[duncanp]

Seems a craze has developed for taking selfies on level crossings.

No doubt if an incident occurs, the "nasty old railway" will take the blame, and Messrs Sue, Grabbit and Runne will be engaged to try and claim compensation.

And yet if people tried to do the same thing on a motorway or A-road, no-one would think that the Highways Agency were to blame. (or would they?)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-34632229

"People have been warned to stop taking photos while standing on railway tracks - after CCTV captured eight dangerous incidents in a day at one level crossing.

One group of people spent more than eight minutes on the railway taking photographs and chatting.
Two children even sat down on the tracks while they posed for a photo.
The incidents all happened on a level crossing at Matlock Bath station in Derbyshire on 30 August.
It is not the first time there have been dangerous incidents at the crossing, but Network Rail has released the CCTV footage as an example of what not to do.

Martin Brown, operations risk adviser at Network Rail, said: "Trains can come from either direction at any time and being distracted by chatting, texting or taking photographs while using the crossing significantly increases the risk of an incident."
The station is in a picturesque location and was built in the style of a Swiss chalet, which could explain why people are so keen to have their photo taken there.
"Level crossings in rural, picturesque settings such as Matlock may look like good opportunities for a photo but the railway is not a playground," said Mr Brown.
British Transport Police has increased patrols in the area and wants to speak to the people pictured to reinforce concerns about their "reckless and dangerous behaviour. Insp Eddie Carlin said: "I have had to tell devastated families that their loved ones are not coming home due to incidents such as this and it's heartbreaking."
Level crossings were built with the Victorian railway more than 100 years ago when there were fewer and slower trains.
There are approximately 6,100 level crossings in Britain, but more than 900 have been closed over the past five years.

 

[ValleyLines142]

From looking at the title of the thread, I thought this was Network Rail engineers taking selfies on the track of themselves!

 

[RedZed]

Seems a craze has developed for taking selfies on level crossings.

No doubt if an incident occurs, the "nasty old railway" will take the blame, and Messrs Sue, Grabbit and Runne will be engaged to try and claim compensation.

And yet if people tried to do the same thing on a motorway or A-road, no-one would think that the Highways Agency were to blame. (or would they?)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-34632229

Probably. In this claim culture that we seem to live in these days, people seem reluctant to take responsibility for their own stupidity.

 

[fairysdad]

I notice that none of the stills shown on the BBC article are actually people taking "selfies"...

 

[theironroad]

I notice that none of the stills shown on the BBC article are actually people taking "selfies"...

Maybe, but I notice that the second CCTV clip certainly does, so not really sure what your point is.

 

[jbqfc]

to me it seems the better the tec gets the stupider the people get

 

[fairysdad]

Maybe, but I notice that the second CCTV clip certainly does, so not really sure what your point is.

I'll admit I didn't watch the video on the page (dodgy 3G connection and all that), but the point was more one of the term "selfie" being used when half the photos being taken aren't. I once witnessed somebody give another person their phone and say 'Could you take a selfie of me please?' :roll:

Having read the article again though, I note that it's not NR or the BTP that used the term, but more the BBC. Make of that what you will...

 

[yorkie]

Selfies are just one example of the problems, Network Rail and BTP both used the term in the press release, but only as part of a longer list of things people shouldn't be doing. Here are a couple of extracts:-

A stark warning has been issued after CCTV captured eight incidents of dangerous behaviour in a single day on a rural railway crossing in Derbyshire.

Video footage at Matlock Bath station caught adults and children taking selfies, talking on the phone while walking along the line and even sitting down to pose for pictures on the tracks. One group of up to ten people, including a toddler, spent over eight minutes on the railway taking photographs and chatting....

"...The railway is a dangerous environment. Trains travel at speed and can be silent and if people are trespassing on the tracks and are distracted taking photos, selfies or texting they really are putting themselves in danger, no photo or text is worth risking your life...."

 

[cornishjohn]

While I agree with the general tenor of the press release (many of the perps in the video are clearly guilty of trespass and open to prosecution in my opinion), are there not parts of the railway that are rather more dangerous than a train every half hour with a 10 mph speed limit?

 

[RichmondCommu]

The problem on lines such as the Matlock branch is that these idiots become complacent; in other words they look at the timetable on their phones and think they are safe because the timetable says there isn't another train for over 20 minutes. It's these lightly used lines that are currently seeing RHTT's which of course are not in the EMT timetable!

 

[SPADTrap]

While I agree with the general tenor of the press release (many of the perps in the video are clearly guilty of trespass and open to prosecution in my opinion), are there not parts of the railway that are rather more dangerous than a train every half hour with a 10 mph speed limit?

Where is it written that trains are only every 30 minutes? Some just don't get it. Did you read that from the same place as those two young girls who decided that a railway foot crossing was an appropriate place to sit down and have a conversation as they understood there to be no more trains that evening? Only one managed to dive clear of the Northern Rail unit that fatally struck the one who didn't, and for what? For how long will the point continue to be missed?

 

[RichmondCommu]

I'll admit I didn't watch the video on the page (dodgy 3G connection and all that), but the point was more one of the term "selfie" being used when half the photos being taken aren't. I once witnessed somebody give another person their phone and say 'Could you take a selfie of me please?' :roll:

Having read the article again though, I note that it's not NR or the BTP that used the term, but more the BBC. Make of that what you will...

Does it really matter whether people are taking selfie's or not? In my view it's completely irrelevant; all that matters here is that people are standing / walking / sitting on the railway and putting themselves in grave danger. Lets get some perspective here.

 

[alxndr]

While I agree with the general tenor of the press release (many of the perps in the video are clearly guilty of trespass and open to prosecution in my opinion), are there not parts of the railway that are rather more dangerous than a train every half hour with a 10 mph speed limit?

I highly doubt it's solely an issue at that one location (well know, I did daft things myself as a young teen), I'm just guessing it was used to highlight the issue with it being so clearly captured on CCTV.

 

[Master29]

While I agree with the general tenor of the press release (many of the perps in the video are clearly guilty of trespass and open to prosecution in my opinion), are there not parts of the railway that are rather more dangerous than a train every half hour with a 10 mph speed limit?

Considering they were minors prosecution aint gonna happen is it.

 

[Camden]

Brainless fools.

It's not them that need to be protected from the trains, it's us that need to be protected from them.

 

[bramling]

Where is it written that trains are only every 30 minutes? Some just don't get it. Did you read that from the same place as those two young girls who decided that a railway foot crossing was an appropriate place to sit down and have a conversation as they understood there to be no more trains that evening? Only one managed to dive clear of the Northern Rail unit that fatally struck the one who didn't, and for what? For how long will the point continue to be missed?

There's only so much that can be done to protect some people from themselves, and it's amazing how utterly unobservant some people are.

For example, Urmston station one Sunday a few years ago. Posters everywhere stating no trains due to engineering work, and no track in one of the platforms with works clearly in evidence just off the end of the platform. At train departure time, woman starts looking at watch, then walks over to timetable, back again starts looking at her watch. After a while she comes over and asks why the train hasn't arrived. When told about the engineering work and after the missing track and work has been pointed out, she says "are you sure?".

 

[cornishjohn]

Where is it written that trains are only every 30 minutes? Some just don't get it. Did you read that from the same place as those two young girls who decided that a railway foot crossing was an appropriate place to sit down and have a conversation as they understood there to be no more trains that evening? Only one managed to dive clear of the Northern Rail unit that fatally struck the one who didn't, and for what? For how long will the point continue to be missed?

I looked up the timetable. As far as I can see it is a single track line normally worked on a one-in one-out basis with typically one train per hour in each direction. What is the highest capacity the line CAN be worked to?

I'm not familiar with the incident you refer to at all.

The video doing the rounds where the bloke has his shoe knocked off while dashing across the level crossing in front of a train DEMONSTRATES the riskiness of the behaviour. I'm not sure this one does...

 

[SPADTrap]

I looked up the timetable. As far as I can see it is a single track line normally worked on a one-in one-out basis with typically one train per hour in each direction. What is the highest capacity the line CAN be worked to?

I'm not familiar with the incident you refer to at all. Perhaps familiarising yourself with that incident might be a start, I think they thought they too had looked it up in the timetable, a fatal error.

The video doing the rounds where the bloke has his shoe knocked off while dashing across the level crossing in front of a train DEMONSTRATES the riskiness of the behaviour. I'm not sure this one does...

As I said some just don't/won't/can't get it. Perhaps it would serve as an eye opener? They too believed they had 'looked it up in the timetable' and that was a mistake with fatal consequences for one and had a life changing impact on the other who saw it all happen. Your principle is flawed and dangerous and irresponsible.

You might however be onto something with your inference of 'anything short of showing someone being obliterated by a train' will get a "meh I know better" response from those as naive to the risks as you sound. An 'it won't happen to me' mentality?

 

[Radedamer]

Okay, I'm presuming that "one train in each direction each hour" does not have to mean one every 30 minutes in practice. For instance, at the ends of the singletrack section, I suppose you could have one train leave the section then another join it just a couple of minutes later. And what does "looking up the timetable" mean? I'm guessing that doesn't show any freight trains there might be. But people who seem to be knowledgeable about railways from the inside are somehow not making these points.

 

[bramling]

Okay, I'm presuming that "one train in each direction each hour" does not have to mean one every 30 minutes in practice. For instance, at the ends of the singletrack section, I suppose you could have one train leave the section then another join it just a couple of minutes later. And what does "looking up the timetable" mean? I'm guessing that doesn't show any freight trains there might be. But people who seem to be knowledgeable about railways from the inside are somehow not making these points.

It's never safe to assume a train won't turn up just based on the timetable, as there's always the possibility of late running or an extra train.

The only time it's safe to remain on a crossing is if you have appropriate lookout protection in place. If you know a location and line well there are places where you are less likely to get caught out, but this is beyond the knowledge of the average person.

 

[cornishjohn]

Okay, I'm presuming that "one train in each direction each hour" does not have to mean one every 30 minutes in practice. For instance, at the ends of the singletrack section, I suppose you could have one train leave the section then another join it just a couple of minutes later. And what does "looking up the timetable" mean? I'm guessing that doesn't show any freight trains there might be. But people who seem to be knowledgeable about railways from the inside are somehow not making these points.

All I did with the timetable is figure out the down service is roughly hourly. Near the terminus I understand that the train goes past, turns round in a few minutes and then comes back again. Then we have a longer gap for the train to leave the section and the next to arrive. I've never relied on a timetable to know the precise time a train will arrive! (or leave:roll.

While the passenger timetable won't show freight trains, on a passenger service sufficiently frequent there is no time to "squeeze" a freight train through.

What I am trying to say is I don't think the video LOOKS risky, which is different from believing the activity ISN'T risky.

However, perceptions of risk vary. In the UK allowing the public to cross the line at track level at stations is pretty rare. In continental Europe it is (or was) quite common. I have already agreed I think we see the prosecutable offence of trespassing on the railway occurring. However, when we break the law (e.g. speeding), our day in court is not necessarily assured. We might just have a good talking to from the PC. Or a caution. Or, if we were more dangerous we can expect points or a ban.

There is another video on the web of that train passing through the middle of the street market in (I believe) S.E. Asia, with folk jumping out of the way. That LOOKS risky, but then again seems acceptably safe to the powers that be.

It's never safe to assume a train won't turn up just based on the timetable, as there's always the possibility of late running or an extra train.

The only time it's safe to remain on a crossing is if you have appropriate lookout protection in place. If you know a location and line well there are places where you are less likely to get caught out, but this is beyond the knowledge of the average person.

Again, one might be surprised. In the more remote parts of the country locals can have quite a good understanding of when the next train can arrive, knowing when the last one left.

I wouldn't fancy my chances standing in the four foot at Baker Street to take a selfie...

 

[Howardh]

Brainless fools.

It's not them that need to be protected from the trains, it's us that need to be protected from them.

And if someone shoved 10,000 volts through the track that might help them to protect themselves against themselves a bit better.....

 

[alxndr]

Again, one might be surprised. In the more remote parts of the country locals can have quite a good understanding of when the next train can arrive, knowing when the last one left.

Arguably it's potentially more dangerous if the locals think that they know when the next train will arrive. On a standard day their knowledge might keep them quite safe, but if something unusual happens it's likely to catch them off guard, as they'll be complacent and less mindful than someone unfamiliar with the area might be.

I can't remember the exact details, but I recall being briefed on an incident where a look out had failed to spot an oncoming train as he believed he had worked out the pattern the trains were taking (i.e. one on the up, then one on the down, and so forth) and wasn't continually paying attention to both directions. He got away with it until a train broke that pattern. And this was someone not further distracted by getting a good selfie.

 

[Radedamer]

The point I want to make is that saying "you just don't get it" does not help people get it.

 

[Llanigraham]

I looked up the timetable. As far as I can see it is a single track line normally worked on a one-in one-out basis with typically one train per hour in each direction. What is the highest capacity the line CAN be worked to?

I'm not familiar with the incident you refer to at all.

The video doing the rounds where the bloke has his shoe knocked off while dashing across the level crossing in front of a train DEMONSTRATES the riskiness of the behaviour. I'm not sure this one does...

Doesn't matter what the timetable shows, there could still be "extras" or track machines running.

An example:
A couple of years ago a lady was hit by a tamper at a UWC on the Cambrian, where the user was required to phone the Box first, one Sunday morning. Stuck to the dash of her car was the Timetable which showed no PASSENGER trains that early on a Sunday, so she hadn't bothered to ring. She was quite indignant about the tamper not being shown!

 

[D1009]

But people who seem to be knowledgeable about railways from the inside are somehow not making these points.

That's because they are irrelevant. Anyone who deliberately lingers on an operational railway line is risking their lives, end of.

 

[meridian2]

We operate one of the safest railways in the world,but like all things, it isn't foolproof and as such,things like this bring unwarranted attention to our railway. Safety has to come first, we all have to be wise and circumspect, and we cannot move any safety goalposts no matter if it happens to be a freight-only line used only on Thursdays. Well done NR.

 

[Radedamer]

But how are you going to make them see that? 'End of' won't make anyone who's already convinced they know it's safe (whether because they have the timetable or the track is straight for miles or whatever) think again.

It's not specifically a railway issue, of course.

 

[D1009]

But how are you going to make them see that? 'End of' won't make anyone who's already convinced they know it's safe (whether because they have the timetable or the track is straight for miles or whatever) think again.

It's not me who is trying to make them see it, it's Network Rail and the BTP, who are using the BBC to publicise the issue and the fact there are to be additional police patrols in the area. It's not helpful to make out the danger is any different on a rural branch line to any other railway.

 

[Radedamer]

Of course, and it's a general point about communication to the public. (Have just edited my previous post to reflect this, before seeing your post above, but I don't think you'd seen my edit.) But someone earlier in this thread was saying how it couldn't really be dangerous with a train every hour at barely walking speed (or whatever) and there were several replies to them along the lines of "it's dangerous and if you can't see that, it's your problem!" (I paraphrase). Not a great way to persuade anyone of anything.