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Network Rail Signallers: Strike Action

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whoshotjimmi

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So you agree with management changing work practises and contracts WITHOUT CONSULTATION OR NEGOCIATION when it suits them then.

I didn't say that. I merely stated that a strike helps no one and hurts everyone. Of course, there are all sorts of arguments to look at from many sides, but striking doesn't help.

If we are talking about management changing work practices etc, they are firmly within their rights to do so. They are in charge after all. Whether I agree or not is irrelevant.
 
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What are the chances that the RMT will have to call the strike off due to being told to by the courts later today?

Does network rail have a case to get it called off?
 

DaveNewcastle

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What are the chances that the RMT will have to call the strike off due to being told to by the courts later today?
High. See posts 226 to 236 in this thread.
We can't expect that the Judge will give their decision immediately - we'll probs have to wait.
Does network rail have a case to get it called off?
They wouldn't be seeking an Injunction unless their legal advice was that the strike would be unlawful (albeit on a technicalitiy of the ballot - a ballot which quite probably would produce a different result if members were consulted again now, and with an updated membership database).
If it would be unlawful then the Court will grant the Injunction, and that will prevent the Union from instructing members to strike.
 

CosherB

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I didn't say that. I merely stated that a strike helps no one and hurts everyone.

whoshot, Royal Oak is not too choosy what he accuses folk of posting. I think he does it deliberately; either that or is such a poor reader that he misunderstands them. I should ignore him if I were you.
 

Metroland

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I think personally there is too much ganging up on people from those involved with unions. Lot of the time we get threads on specific disputes, most of the people posting are not involved and are there just to push the union side as strongly as possible.

Very often they treat the rest of us like idiots and do themselves no favours by not explaining the cause, underestimating the 'fair play' on the public, usually culminating in mud-slinging. I'm not entirely sure how that is supposed to bring anyone onto their side.

There are occasions where industrial action is justified, but please explain to people why it is, and why you think disrupting them is necessary in order to justify your cause.
 

TW7

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whoshot, Royal Oak is not too choosy what he accuses folk of posting. I think he does it deliberately; either that or is such a poor reader that he misunderstands them. I should ignore him if I were you.


I think it is time we ignored all your nonsense. You fail to grasp the issue at hand, and just flame any opinion posted on this thread.
 

WatcherZero

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Network Rail won their injunction
Signallers Strike has been ruled Illegal!


Both Sky and BBC are reporting it as good news, seems the Unions database of members was at issue, so they cant reballot until thats sorted.
 

GB

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Maintainence guys are still going on strike though so still maybe some disruption if serious faults need fixing.
 

Aictos

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Damn NWR and I was so looking forward to next week as well!!!

Never mind, will be interesting to see what the next ballot says.
 

WatcherZero

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Was 54% in favour this time right?

You expecting it to go down or more likely up?
 

GB

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With the level of mud slinging and contempt NR has treated its staff with, I wouldnt be suprised that the next vote would result in a huge "yes" vote.
 

radamfi

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With the level of mud slinging and contempt NR has treated its staff with, I wouldnt be suprised that the next vote would result in a huge "yes" vote.

Won't public opinion make staff think the other way?
 

GB

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I guess we will have to wait and see. But I personly believe that if there does turn out to be another mandate for strike action the majority will be higher than 54%.
 

mickey

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Won't public opinion make staff think the other way?

Did it with British Airways?

The parallels are remarkable, except of course that when it came down to it most BA staff actually went in to work and tried their best to save a failing company. I don't see rail staff being that thoughtful, if I'm honest. It's great that the strike has been called off, but my suspicion is that in reality it's just been postponed.
 

TDK

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So you agree with management changing work practises and contracts WITHOUT CONSULTATION OR NEGOCIATION when it suits them then.

So Royal Oak, lets have a list of the practises and contracts that have been changed without consultation, then if we know these we can comment on the strong feelings you have on this subject, without the evidence of the quote you have made no one will take you seriously!
 

merlodlliw

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After the unite cock up with their database, I am surprised the RMT did not
check, those who vote, are alive,have not retired,have not left the RMT.

Which ever way you look at it, the RMT cocked it up like unite, I was a member of a trade union which had not a clue who the membership was, even now with union subs paid via the employer, RMT gets it wrong.

Bob Crows people will need to account for this shambles, its not difficult to ensure ballot forms are sent to correct members,a simple check of membership could have stopped this cock up.

my opinion.
 

CarterUSM

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It is an embarrassment for the union. Injunctions have been applied for the majority of recent strikes. It does not do the union any favours making schoolboy errors like this. Not to mention lack of quality PR, but that's another debate. I myself also consider the strike simply postponed. There's been a lot of nonsense doing the rounds, from both sides.
 

Wyvern

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After the unite cock up with their database, I am surprised the RMT did not
check, those who vote, are alive,have not retired,have not left the RMT.
.

Well apparently since the ballot was among signallers the voting forms were sent to their boxes. I understand not all of them had kept the union up to date with their moves.

Still seems odd to me.

How did they ballot the maintenance folk? Incidentally what happens with them anyway?

Looking on from outside it seems a gigantic cockup. None of the signallers problems were mentioned in the media, only those of the mantenance people, yet it was the signallers action that received the media attention. Presumably the maintenance problems will now be forgotten.
 
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Metroland

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Maintenance strike is on, but NR say they can cope with that.

Amazing these things cause so much trouble!

23_90_35---railway-detonator-railroad-torpedo_web.jpg
 

WatcherZero

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Sheesh, looking like some dodgy stuffed ballot boxes, Usk signal box burned down 12 months earlier but managed to vote in favour, a depot with only 3 union employees sent 12 votes in favour. Sure it could be partly down to union not keeping up-to-date with staff movements but when you stand back and see what the picture the union itself drew looks like they should be ashamed.
 

whoshotjimmi

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By what you have written it isn't difficult to work out your opinion, glad you aren't in charge of anybody, you would be a fantastic boss!

I have held a number of management positions. I have also held a chairpersons role in a business consultation group that looked after the interests of the staff. Frankly, I have sat on both sides of arguments like these. The best resolution comes when everyone gets a little bit sensible. Striking, working to rule and such like does not contribute anything and only serves to damage relations between staff and management.

With regards to me being a fantastic boss, I would say that I do as much as I can. I care hugely about my team, how they feel, what they want. Yes, I am in charge and when i want something doing I expect it to be done. But I will always listen to constructive argument and take on board anything that is said. I actively encourage my team to give me ideas and will utilise anything that is of use. If they come up with a better idea than me, great! I use it and they retain the credit. I will admit, that if I am not shown the proper respect, I am very tough. But in terms of fairness and the treatment I give to my team, I doubt there is much more I can do. At the same time I have to take orders from above and, at times, there are things I do not like but have to accept it. At the end of the day, they are perfectly entitled to do so.

Now, royaloak, you do not know me very well. And everything you have levelled against me thus far on this forum, I have been able to answer with a great degree of aplomb that each time you are only able to react to with a misinformed comment. I may be young, but I have experienced a lot in life. I would like to think that, if you ever worked with me, or for me, you would understand what I am saying.

If you would like my opinion, I will give it to you. I post here as a rail user and enthusiast.

As a rail user, I fear that a rail strike would be a major inconvenience. The feeling from passengers is that a strike is just a way of rail workers saying "sod you lot", which, in effect, they are.

As a rail enthusiast, I fear a strike would be irreversibly damaging to the railways at a time when people are looking to rail to provide a solution. Everyone who would use a train would either have to use a car, a bus or stay at home. And many might think, once they got back in their car, that, actually, felling as though the railway does not care about them, they might just stay there.

The biggest problem rail workers have is the many thousands upon thousands of people who would give their right arm to work in the rail industry, let alone the thousands upon thousands who are just looking for work.

As I said before, a strike hurts everyone and helps no one.

So royaloak, I hope that I have satisfied your lust for my response. If you disagree with my point of view, so be it. I am not going to be able to convince the whole world. But a petty broadside when, frankly, you have nothing else to contribute is not constructive and adds nothing to a perfectly reasonable debate.
 

Oswyntail

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I wonder how the relevant records can be maintained. OK, when I left work, I left the union, but let membership ride until they next asked for money. I suspect this is common enough. But, with regard to the signallers at Usk, did they leave the service, or were they redeployed elsewhere? If the latter, then their vote is simply registered at the wrong workplace, but it should still count. The most efficient way to keep records updated would be for the employers to notify the union of any changes directly - but, as in this case, it could be in the employers interests to supply out of date info. I suppose what I am saying is that, if the union dues have been paid, someone, somewhere was eligible to vote.
But history does suggest that strikes solve nothing.
 

merlodlliw

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Well apparently since the ballot was among signallers the voting forms were sent to their boxes. I understand not all of them had kept the union up to date with their moves.

Still seems odd to me.

How did they ballot the maintenance folk? Incidentally what happens with them anyway?

Looking on from outside it seems a gigantic cockup. None of the signallers problems were mentioned in the media, only those of the mantenance people, yet it was the signallers action that received the media attention. Presumably the maintenance problems will now be forgotten.

here it is
The company alleged that the RMT balloted 11 signal boxes that do not exist, and that in 67 locations the numbers of union members balloted exceeded the total number of employees working.
It also claimed that 26 workplaces were missed out, giving RMT members at these locations no opportunity to vote.

.Bob Crows quote after the judgement "This is an attack on the trade Union movement" for getting caught out comes to mind
 
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Greeny

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I would hope that if there is a fresh vote, then it comes back with a majority so large that nobody can argue with it.

G
 

CosherB

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So Royal Oak, lets have a list of the practises and contracts that have been changed without consultation, then if we know these we can comment on the strong feelings you have on this subject, without the evidence of the quote you have made no one will take you seriously!


From him? Don't hold your breath! :D
 

mickey

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How does the vote counting work? Who does it - the union, the employer, or an independent outsider such as the ERS? (And if the latter, who pays?)
 

CosherB

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I would hope that if there is a fresh vote, then it comes back with a majority so large that nobody can argue with it.

G

No matter how large the majority, if the union once again can be shown to have presented false returns on the vote, the vote will once again be declared invalid.
 

Capybara

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How does the vote counting work? Who does it - the union, the employer, or an independent outsider such as the ERS? (And if the latter, who pays?)

An outside body, of which ERBS is the most commonly-used by unions, conducts the ballot, including the issue, collection and counting of ballot papers. The union, naturally, has to pay them to do so.
 
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