Tezza1978
Member
As a non railway industry layperson this looks similar to the offer the train operating companies have made to the RMT - but maybe some other differences that people in the know will pick up on?
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Network Rail makes new offer to the RMT union
- Thread starter Tezza1978
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As a non railway industry layperson this looks similar to the offer the train operating companies have made to the RMT - but maybe some other differences that people in the know will pick up on?
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Trainfan2019
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I also read about this offer but I've lost track of who's offered what to whom and when now. The strikes have dragged on that long that I just automatically catch buses on strike days and claim season ticket delay repay when there are no trains running. Just the new normal now.
LiftFan
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Not sure how well that will go down this time- none of us want to be losing money for something that may simply never get won, otherwise we might just be shooting ourselves in the foot with that. At the same time, it makes me irritated that NR have decided to just force through their changes without consultation when a lot of the equipment (on the S&T at least) is exactly the same as it was 40 years ago and needs the same, if not more, maintenance to keep it reliable! The pay offer itself I would personally accept, as it is close to the rate of inflation and at long last gives us infrastructure workers some priv travel.
It's been 4 weeks since the last strikes and we've now been given a offer that's basically the one we could have had 8 weeks ago so what was the point of them strikes or of having any more. What has the union been doing for the last month? I've seen our union leaders talking about bringing the government down but unless they pay me my full wage to strike then forget it
alxndr
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The changes from the previous offer are to leave for registered carers and long service awards. More notable though (in my view anyway) is that the union seems to have now changed to an admission that Modernising Maintenance is happening whether we like it or not, although what that'll actually look like is yet to be seen. Prior to Christmas there was a narrative from the union that we might be able to stop it, and that's what mattered to most people. Now there's resignation that it's happening regardless I think support for more strikes has massively dwindled.
Only 40 years?! I don't know the exact age but the stuff I've been working on a lot recently is mentioned in reference book I've got that was printed in 1950... Unsurprisingly they're not the most reliable in the world, but are thankfully simple to work on due to their age.
The RMT have asked for feedback via union meetings and reps on this latest offer before going back to Network Rail.
Personally I feel there hasn't been enough changed from the last offer to make it even worth putting this to the membership via a referendum and would hope that the NEC rejects the offer outright.
Personally I feel there hasn't been enough changed from the last offer to make it even worth putting this to the membership via a referendum and would hope that the NEC rejects the offer outright.
Snow1964
Established Member
As you say, once the improvements become virtually zero in each subsequent offer, not going to be much enthusiasm to lose pay for potentially no further gain. Seems clear to me Government is happy to sit this out, so only losers if it continues are those losing pay (and affected passengers)
I think longer term the RMT has weakened itself by creating a situation where minimum service level legislation has been made, something that even Margaret Thatcher wouldn't do.
Hmm I do wonder about this. Speaking from the TOC side of things, they have definitely improved the offer and have certainly taking out some of the most terrible things they wanted to do. Perhaps there can be a bit more movement. I know for me, a little bit more movement could make the deal palatable to me. Let’s wait and see I guess, ultimately up to NR members.
Florence Rox
Member
As am RMT member, I am beginning to feel that we have wrung every drop we can out of this government. They will continue to side-step negotiations until their anti-strike bill becomes law. Further strikes will only hit us in the pocket, despite the deal on offer being a very poor one.
I agree, unfortunately.
Turtle
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I'm beginning to think your view is unfortunately correct. This government is in a kamikaze mode.
Obviously individual choice to accept this or not but 5+4 is no where near inflation (not that I'd expect an inflation matching rise anyway) and the 75% off tickets is only of use if you actually use the trains.
brad465
Veteran Member
Presumably the RMT with Network Rail have been cornered by the fact the TSSA and Unite members accepted the same offer.
There has been extensive consultation Nationally, and local consultation is underway.
What there hasn’t been is agreement. If there had been, there would be no dispute.
Lack of agreement not helped by the union policy of ‘nothing is agreed until it all is agreed’.
Fair point around priv travel. It saves me thousands per year as someone who lives in London, commutes to work by train and doesn’t have a car, but that’s not going to be the same story for many (most?) NR workers around the country.
maybe / maybe not. But it has been a long standing request by employees, and it has been delivered. At almost every staff briefing I’ve been to in the last 25 years it’s been a question asked to the top management.
Now it has been arranged, I’d rather hope it is not suggested as being of no consequence in the negotiations. I should stress there is no sign of that.
Fair point.
It’s certainly more meaningful than the carers leave tweak which, while no doubt useful for those who need it, is obscure and a tiny cost to the employer in the scheme of things.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
@43066 @Bald Rick
The priv travel is fantastic for me. I am encouraging everyone I can to apply and use it by offering saving examples and anecdotal evidence. Want a weekend away? With your card Edinburgh, say, is £40 rather than £150!
The priv travel is fantastic for me. I am encouraging everyone I can to apply and use it by offering saving examples and anecdotal evidence. Want a weekend away? With your card Edinburgh, say, is £40 rather than £150!
The priv travel offer is all well and good until you realise that not all operators are included and there are no European discounts - its certainly not what a new TOC entrant would get which is what I would expect if I was being offered it.
That does put a different complexion on it. I assumed it was as per the TOCs - which operators are included, out of interest?
See section 7 of the attached:
I've listed the excluded National Rail operators:
I think originally Transport for Wales was on the excluded list but has since been added to the included list
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Correct - it isn't as good as the TOC offer but it is better than the nowt NR staff had before!
High Dyke
Established Member
There has been discussion, on the Network Rail Yammer pages about this further tier of staff travel. The travel facility, which has been requested many times, is not actually as good as non-safeguarded staff get.
So not only did some TU members vote to accept the pay offer, they then find out, despite management promises of being paid before Christmas, they wouldn't receive it until the RMT agreed. Those people felt misled by management.
Bringing things up to date, many signalling staff are questioning the point of further strike action. Maintenance staff have been returning to work and, as already mentioned, management are pushing through their changes regardless.
So not only did some TU members vote to accept the pay offer, they then find out, despite management promises of being paid before Christmas, they wouldn't receive it until the RMT agreed. Those people felt misled by management.
Bringing things up to date, many signalling staff are questioning the point of further strike action. Maintenance staff have been returning to work and, as already mentioned, management are pushing through their changes regardless.
On the Ops side, it's only for the pay rise, but Ops are just 'supporting' the maintainance side of things, Ops could have settled back in early December, talking to Signallers that I know, most have now had their fill of Mr Lynch, with many openly saying they are on the verge of going back to working normally.
Many years ago a Union Official said to me, if you dont 'win' in the first 14 to 21 days of strikes, then you never will.
Annetts key
Established Member
Network Rail have indeed made a new offer. There are no radical or significant changes though. And they are still pressing ahead with their “Modernising Maintenance” plans.
Whether this is enough to swing enough RMT members, I don’t know, but it’s not enough to change my mind.
They need to make this absolutely clear to their reps and branch teams and make sure the message gets through to the relevant Exec members.
12LDA28C
Established Member
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December RPI rate was 13.4%. The current offer is nowhere near that. That said, I personally believe if the offer gets put to a referendum, the result might be closer than some expect. Appetite for striking is waning and many staff have already lost thousands since the start of the dispute with some starting to return to work on strike days.
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
And thats exactly what the government are relying on to win the dispute their way....
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